by endisukaj on 6/24/19, 10:02 PM with 238 comments
by seventhtiger on 6/25/19, 10:36 AM
I also only take notes on paper, but more importantly, I throw all my notes out as soon as I finish writing them.
For me studying is the act of writing the notes. The purpose of notes was never to read them later. That's why writing on paper is important to me. It's not about the qualities and convenience of the storage medium. It's about the experience of writing itself that makes me dislike digital notes.
When it's time for exams I go back to the primary source, whether it's a text book, lectures, or handouts, and I write a new set of notes. I throw those out when I'm done also.
You might think it's inefficient, which it is only in terms of ink and paper. In terms of time and effort, at least for me personally, the act of putting pen on sheet is 10x as effective as reading in building comprehension and retention. From anecdotal observation, I get done in a few hours of taking new notes what my classmates do in days of binge reading.
by linker3000 on 6/25/19, 5:20 AM
I have a customised Cornell Notes* Word doc template, and I run off batches of 5-10 sheets to take to meetings and training sessions. My colleagues typically turn up with their tablets, surfaces, laptops, phones and 'multitask', however a few have started to adopt my method - it's been particularly useful for client meetings where I have been able to later confirm sub-points or asides mentioned by customers - sometimes months later. It's also very easy to drill down through Quarterly reviews and link chains of historic comments 'on the fly' - for example, being able to confirm that so-and-so first mentioned something about a similar technical issue on a different system 12 months ago.
My 'Cornell' style has developed an element of mindmapping on the pages, which makes it easy to track conversations or sections of meetings that break off into side discussions/brainstorming.
The biggest benefit is that the structure of all notes is consistent, so not only can I find things very quickly, but others can interpret them too - this is a particularly powerful way to allow teams to share, compare and understand someone else's notes, even months after the meeting or training took place.
Edit: I also believe it looks very professional in customer meetings when everyone from the same business is taking notes in a similar way, using identical stationery.
I've been working this way since the mid 1990s and find it beats all forms of tech.
by rcthompson on 6/25/19, 5:15 AM
by bayesian_horse on 6/25/19, 5:18 AM
Most lectures cover material that is presented very clearly in accompanying materials, books or the internet. The idea I could do a better job than those authors while listening to the stuff for the first time is ludicrous. And at least for me it doesn't help recollection or focus to write notes while listening, and many students report they can take notes without the information passing through their brains. Other people swear they have to take notes to focus.
There are exceptions of course, for example if the information is new and any other available material is worthless.
by kendallpark on 6/25/19, 4:58 AM
- iPad Pro with (Gen 1 :sadface:) Apple Pencil.
- Screen protector that gives a significant amount of friction to the screen so that it feels closer to paper. [1]
- Goodnotes 5 or Notability (I use both--depends on the circumstances). [2]
- A rule: iPad is solely a reading/studying/note-taking device. No keyboard, no social media apps.
- Bonus: Twelve South BookBook case.
[1] ClearView Paper-Like Screen Protecter for Apple iPad Pro 12.9-inch (2015/2017) [Made in Japan]
[2] I generally prefer GoodNotes over Notability, however, Notability has side-by-side notes and recording. These features are supposedly in the pipeline for GoodNotes, but have yet to materialize. GoodNotes handles large PDFs better (Notability crashes). They both have passable desktop clients for quick cmd+F searching of handwritten notes.
by dexwiz on 6/25/19, 4:52 AM
This article aligns with most of why I thought note taking was good. It definitely has a mechanical nature that typing just doesn't match. Also you don't want notes that are just transcription, you want your own thoughts recorded on the page. Something I think they missed though was diagrams. Typing may result in a perfect transcription, but most lectures contain a visual component. Being able to quickly copy a graph or diagram is extremely useful. When taking notes via typing, there is no good way to do that without a touch screen and some skill. I'm much more likely to remember a diagram I drew than one I looked at.
I love how they gloss over the internet connectivity portion, but I also find that to be a huge component in reality. Sometimes I need to "space off" for a few seconds to digest an idea. When taking paper notes, I end up doodling boxes or lines. When typing, I inevitably get distracted by some shiny thing designed to steal my attention.
I do note in the workplace who brings paper and who brings a laptop to a meeting. Sometimes you need a laptop to present or look up information. But if you are solely there to listen, people who bring paper pay the most attention.
by vincentmarle on 6/25/19, 4:35 AM
by ergothus on 6/25/19, 4:08 AM
Longhand notes (which I do frequently for the RPGs I run, so practice isnt the issue) are nigh unreadable. I literally have dozens of notebooks (not full, but at least 30 - 50 pages each is pretty common ) of notes I struggle to read and organize.
Being able to write with speed and br able to read them is why an elementary school teacher recommended that I try using a computer to write on back before laptops were a thing, and it remains a big reason I rely on them for work notes now.
by scottmsul on 6/25/19, 2:13 PM
by _0w8t on 6/25/19, 2:56 PM
by yial on 6/25/19, 4:13 AM
Additionally, when reviewing shortly after a meeting, I find that I can better suss out the truly important action items. Especially if things need to be delegated.
This isn’t to say I never take notes on my computer. (Notepad++ is wonderful for this), but I find the physical note taking to be incredibly beneficial for organization of information.
Additionally, there may still be a certain social impact where people feel that you’re “paying attention” when taking notes on a physical pad, vs they feel they’ve “lost your attention” the second you start to type away on a device.
by sumodm on 6/25/19, 8:50 AM
Paper vs Computer
1. Paper:
- Ability to spread things out, to take stock of a big project, simultaneous refer back, draw between two pages etc.
- Faster draw diagrams etc, partially fixed, see article about thing student who used latex/inkscape to draw.
- Faster to connect up different ideas.
- Search: When I need to go back to find that idea ('keyword'), when you have hundreds of sheets is super easy.
- Faster to type.
- Easier to organize, I just copy paste and create folders etc. I use Latex and org-mode.
1. Cornell'esque techniques definitely help when revising and organizing.
2. Taking some notes actually helps you to focus better. Reduces random day dreaming, skipping crucial info (which leads to rest of lecture/meeting being harder to understand) etc.
3. Take condensed notes gives me time to listen and makes short notes.
4. But especially in Math related areas, there is no way to assimilate information in one sitting. I often used to hear a random English sentence, only to later realize that some word there had a specific mathematical meaning and it had much deeper meaning than I initially understood. Over-simplified example, xyz is a group. Group here being group theoretic group.
5. Video Recordings of classes and reviewing them and then scribing watching the videos helps a lot, esp for the likes of Advanced CS/EE courses.
6. Writing is learning, verification and long term information storage at the same time. One of my advisors once told me, when I asked him how do you store so much information about various papers etc, "Thats why I wrote that book".
by vmurthy on 6/25/19, 6:01 AM
[1]https://www.amazon.in/Wacom-Bamboo-Digitizer-Tablet-CDS-600P...
by codingdave on 6/25/19, 1:41 PM
Now I fully admit that if I had taken notes, I may have been an A student instead of a B student. But I just found the note-taking process to be a distraction from listening.
by zachruss92 on 6/25/19, 1:52 PM
Long story short, I was in a "dual-enrollment" program which allowed me to take classes at a local college at night while going to high school during the day. I was able to graduate high school with over 30 college credits. One of the courses I took was psychology 101. I didn't particularly like this course (just wasn't interested compared to other subjects) and I ended up goofing off most of the time taking some notes on my laptop/iPad.
Needless to say, this affected my grades and I was at risk of failing the course. In order to study for the final, I ended up going through the book and taking notes of key terms and concepts - writing them down. I was able to get a real understanding of the content and ended up getting 100% on the exam and passing the course.
My lesson; my personal comprehension goes way up when I physically write things down. Now I keep a notebook that I use every day (a bullet journal). In many cases, I duplicate what I'm doing in my project management systems, but I am able to visualize what I need to do much more efficiently.
by chlorophyl on 6/26/19, 6:54 AM
I tried writing my notes by hand but I found it too distracting. I write decently fast but I find myself missing the points of the lecture because I am trying to remember them in order to write them.
For me typing my notes is more convenient and not distracting at all since I'm a fast typist and the act of typing is instinctive for me. I find typing allows me to concentrate on the lecture by listening and yet being able to put the lecture points in writing fast enough.
I tested both methods prior to one of my midterm exams, I get a much higher grade on the subjects where I listen to the lectures while typing my notes than on the ones I listen to while writing by hand. Most of my exams are 2-3 hr handwritten essays.
by tiku on 6/25/19, 6:19 AM
by crazygringo on 6/25/19, 2:28 PM
Just my personal experience, but taking notes was always horrible for me -- as my brain was busy trying to think "how do I write this down in a way that will make sense" as the article suggests, I was missing the next few sentences from the lecturer and getting progressively more lost.
And when the lecturer is making a point, it's not always clear until later whether it was an irrelevant tangent or a main element that will be on the test later.
Taking notes in class distracts from effort that could be better spent learning and comprehending.
On the other hand, taking slides from classes and transforming them into your personal notes and study guide at your own pace -- that's immensely valuable.
by shishy on 6/25/19, 12:48 AM
Anytime I took notes by typing, I'd forget it seconds after finishing. But writing by hand forced me to think about what I was writing. The only thing that trumped that in cementing my understanding was actually having to explain what I learned to my classmates/peers.
I wonder how recall from writing compares to typing out flashcards (e.g. Anki) and then using spaced repetition techniques to memorize concepts.
by zZorgz on 6/25/19, 2:23 PM
Past my school life into employment life, the situation is much different. I take digital notes on many tasks, I search through them like in a database when I need to recall something. I don't get distracted for note taking in environments that sitting through long lectures encourage. I still take notes on paper sometimes, but write a lot less down.
by alan_n on 6/25/19, 10:27 PM
Usually my workflow is: take notes, if I can avoid things I know are in the book, I will, then a week or so before exams I'll read everything (book+notes_ and make flashcards in Anki. I know I can do 25 pages (of a book) a day comfortably so I'll time it appropriately. Then I proceed to cram for a day or two until I can realiably do the whole deck with ease. This usually takes me less time (1/2 usually) than the reading/making hence why I want to switch to digital notes, to avoid a step. Most of the material that's tested for usually doesn't need to be memorized, which irritates me to know end, but what can I do. So I cram so I can promptly forget.
I find concepts are either understood or not understood, they do not need to be memorized. Things that are usually tested for (at least where I live / for what I'm studying) tend to be facts/procedures. At the end of the year I extract these from my notes / anki cards for future reference.
One other thing I do is the flashcards are written exactly how I will answer the question 90% of the time, sometimes in my own words, sometimes extracted right from the book. Before when I studied in English I didn't do this because I'm comfortable with the language, but because I'm studying in another language now, often the wording is the hardest part (also in part why reading takes me so long). This way I don't have to worry about that. Also this makes exams go lightning fast. I'm always first to leave.
by nvarsj on 6/25/19, 9:27 PM
So far I've managed to get usually the top score or very close to the top on all my exams across 5 classes. In my most recent class I got the top score of 96 on an exam where the median was in the 60s.
All I do is take hand written notes (albeit digitally on an ipad) during lectures. Then before the exam, I review my notes. That's it! My recall with this approach has been great.
I admit though, having the lecture videos online is a massive help for this method. I watch at 1.5x and frequently pause it if I miss something, or re-watch a section if I didn't understand it the first time - then take my notes. I always had trouble with real-time lectures in my undergrad.
by vezycash on 6/25/19, 7:13 AM
I used color for headings. Added bullets and numbers even when it wasn't dictated that way. Added acronyms - mnemonics to the headings. Marked out filler content while writing or immediately after class. Summarized, rewrote important parts in my own words. Marked areas where I'd have to reproduce verbatim.
Finally, for exams, I read using my Nook eBook reader instead of the laptop because: The glossy screen is tiring. And there are many distractions on my laptop - browser, games, movies...
Finally, while reading, I actively set questions and answered them after reading. This question method's far better than re-reading multiple times.
With all these, five hours was all I needed for a semester's worth of work.
by sklivvz1971 on 6/25/19, 11:55 AM
Getting copies of notes or reading the actual book can easily replace any note taking. Being distracted from the actual explanation because I'm using my attention to write, is a net loss.
by SamuelAdams on 6/25/19, 12:26 PM
Yet, when we discuss things the next week (weekly meetings are common where I work), some people seem to not remember anything about the prior week's meeting.
I use my laptop to quickly look up last week's notes and reference those while discussing weekly progress. Others do OK with one or two subjects (from memory), but lack detail or flat out do not recall other discussion points.
by dschuetz on 6/25/19, 6:48 AM
by slics on 6/25/19, 11:00 AM
In addition, I work in secure labs and electronics are a big NO, notebook on the other hand it simply works. My 2c. Pen and paper it is still relevant and it always will be.
by LoudogUno on 6/25/19, 5:43 AM
When the lecture, presentation or meeting starts a have a macro that creates a new Evernote note prepended with the date and starts recording into QuickTime. Throughout the exchange, I am typing up quick and dirty first draft notes using a macro to screenshot the portion of the QuickTime window displaying the time elapsed. I also employ symbols/emojis to flag points in the notes that are important‼️, should be returned to and reviewed later , are confusing, raise a question ect... Whenever there is downtime (e.g. interruption or lull in the presentation) I work my way back and start improving the notes: Organizing them into a hierarchy with headings, indentation and boldation. Also, I Hyperlink useful, relevant or referenced URLs.
At the bottom of the document I have a separated section called TAKEAWAY containing a bulleted list of questions to ask, things to follow up on, and key points. I can always ⌘↓ > ↩ to add an item line to this section.
At the end of the exchange, I check my TAKEWAY section and clarify any questions. I stop recording and add the audio file to the top of the document. This leaves me with a reference document I can revisit, clean up, and reference later.
The process of making the note visually appealing and easy to read by cleaning up, formatting, and adding hyperlinks accomplishes a lot of the internalization handwriting does because it forces you to try to convey the kernel of the information being consumed in as well few formatted, organized words as possible.
Furthermore, I'm the type that really values immediately looking up unfamiliar referenced concepts/ideas so I don't misunderstand what/why something is said. As for diagrams, they can usually be incorporated by adding slides of the presentation, taking a picture of the whiteboard at the end, or just googling whatever the diagram was.
With the wonderful world of macros and automation I can change color, size, formatting, add lists; add hyperlinks, multi-media images, timestamps ect... and keep everything in an easy to read, search and share document.
Most importantly my handwriting is bogus. I really couldn't do it any other way.
by vedantroy on 6/25/19, 4:32 PM
Specifically, I'm reading a very detailed textbook on databases. I feel that if I don't take notes I will forget most of the content in the textbook because the textbook is so information dense, but at the same time, whenever I take notes they end up being word-for-word copies of the text because the textbook is already so concise/word-efficient.
by jedberg on 6/25/19, 8:14 AM
Everyone learns differently. You just have to find what works for you. But no internet is key.
by Thinkx220 on 6/25/19, 1:21 PM
I usually use Emacs Org-mode for my note taking and then refactor my notes once class is over.
by paulsutter on 6/25/19, 4:43 AM
by onorton on 6/25/19, 10:53 AM
Even then I would only take notes of equations to memorise them and things that the lecturers said that were even not explained properly or absent in the handouts/slides. At my university there were recordings of the lectures but I was too lazy/didn't want to waste my time looking up exactly what they said.
by barney54 on 6/25/19, 10:35 AM
by jt0 on 6/25/19, 8:48 PM
by acd on 6/25/19, 7:43 AM
How about if you take notes on laptop put that into spaced repetition software like Anki & Supermemo compared to hand written notes memory retention?
by sebringj on 6/25/19, 4:36 PM
by sprash on 6/25/19, 5:23 AM
It is the best of both worlds. You basically have a zero latency touchscreen that can save your notes to PDF.
Even the best Tablets today have latency, most are designed more as touchscreen. Writing gets tiring and distracting really quick.
I wonder why the Boogie Board Sync was discontinued.
by Bedon292 on 6/25/19, 6:35 PM
Now, this isn't without issues, as being on a computer allows for easier distractions. But as long as one stays focused on the class, it can work quite well.
by crucialfelix on 6/25/19, 5:22 AM
by totallynotcool on 6/25/19, 5:29 AM
by pjmlp on 6/25/19, 6:14 AM
Then I either scan them directly to PDF or take to effort to re-write them, if the information is to be better structured or shared with others.
Besides all the benefits mentioned by others, it is also a good way to rest my wrists from just typing.
by mesaframe on 6/25/19, 8:53 AM
by vast on 6/25/19, 6:55 AM
by sequoia on 6/25/19, 12:16 PM
by enriquto on 6/25/19, 6:12 AM
by padobson on 6/25/19, 12:58 PM
The study sort of assumes that taking notes at all is necessary, but I think the conceptual understanding vs. rote memorization idea suggests that taking notes should be questionable also.
Jordan Peterson has 3 minutes of advice for taking notes conceptually rather than verbatim: https://youtu.be/lMvvdz7YJ-Q
I take notes in text files every day. I do it for work, I do it for exercise, I do it for cooking and grocery shopping, I do it for planning my day, I do it for self improvement.
Writing it out is the simplest form of explanation - I'm explaining the concept to myself. I'm analyzing it to make sure I don't have any logical holes in my thinking, and then I can refer back to it. If I try to explain the concept to another person, and they point out a logical hole or they otherwise can't grasp the point, I go back to my text file and try to find the missing pieces and add them in.
I like this because I always have the concept at the ready. Maybe I don't encounter the topic for a few months or years, and I go back and read the text file on the topic and it's like the neurons organized around the topic all come to life again - but the best part is that there are all these new neurons that I've picked up that apply to it, and the text file gets a little bigger.
It also helps me compartmentalize. Once I've written something into digital stone, I can switch contexts knowing I've pushed the concept as far as my mind can take it for the moment. Later, I can come back and pick up where I left off after my subconscious has had time to chew on it.
by smittywerben on 6/25/19, 12:47 PM
You are only presented the information once. There is a reason stenographers record court and lectures. I prefer to handwrite notes on my own time, sometimes twice or three times, for my final copy I study from. If you are smarter than me, you can get away with less notes (or get them from me).
In business meetings if you frantically record every detail, people think you might be a lawyer so this may not apply.
by tempodox on 6/25/19, 11:14 AM
by narrator on 6/25/19, 10:54 AM
by jonshariat on 6/25/19, 4:52 PM
It might because writing makes you slow down a bit. But would be interesting to see.
by imw on 6/25/19, 10:48 AM
by a3_nm on 6/25/19, 7:26 AM
by ragerino on 6/25/19, 6:18 AM
by kstenerud on 6/25/19, 6:12 AM
There's nothing wrong or inferior about taking notes with a computer vs a notepad so long as you're not transcribing.
But, "Don't take notes with a laptop" is punchier.
by hyperpallium on 6/25/19, 7:08 AM
by stillbourne on 6/25/19, 2:33 PM
by acconrad on 6/25/19, 4:06 AM