from Hacker News

Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

by rooster8 on 5/29/19, 4:24 PM with 119 comments

by benmdi on 5/29/19, 5:06 PM
Wow. I literally use this App every single day. I think it was $5 and I have gotten enormous value from it for 3+ years.
Sad that what is probably a random glitch on Apple's part can just kill a person's livelihood overnight.
I used to be a full time iOS contractor but have moved away from it in the last couple of years. Dealing with this kind of junk is one of the main reasons why. I have lots of similarly frustrating stories from my clients.
by graeme on 5/29/19, 8:42 PM
Edit: I do not expect it can help resolve the issue much, but I went and left the app a rating as I have used it and find it quite good. I realized I had neglected to do so until now
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I do not understand the people agreeing with Apple that search results are not guaranteed. App Store search does not nearly exist to serve developers; it exists to help users. This app was number one for years and has good reviews. I’ve used it myself and like it.
And then it vanishes. Something went wrong in Apple systems: either they been making a mistake for years, or a glitch has occurred. This developers support ticket is basically a bug report and Apple is ignoring it. It is pedantically correct to point out that search rankings can end at any moment. But this is far from a good result and I am baffled that some people are siding with Apple here to justify what is clearly a bug.
To the developer: before pulling the plug I strongly suggest trying a subscription model. I would probably pay a few dollars a year just to keep the app, heavy users would be even more willing to pay. I don’t know if your numbers make that sustainable but there may be a way to do so.
by _bxg1 on 5/29/19, 6:45 PM
This is a good argument for having multiple app stores. I don't totally blame Apple's devs here: it's completely imaginable that small, innocent changes in what's no doubt an enormous codebase could have totally unpredictable effects on individual search rankings.
The problem is that there's only a single point of articulation. If half a dozen app stores all got search results "mostly right", then little variations like this wouldn't sink a business. This is far from the only example of the single-platform effect. Facebook gets (or is forced) to be the arbiter of free speech. YouTube gets (or is forced) to be the arbiter of copyright claims. In the world of PC games, for contrast, Steam's algorithms can't totally sink a game because they don't have a total monopoly. There's itch.io, GOG, and now Epic. You can go to other platforms (or all of them!).
I love Apple's app store. I love how hard they fight to protect their customers from exploitative and dangerous software. I feel safe downloading apps there in a way that I didn't on Google Play. But monopolies are bad, even in the rare cases where they don't degrade the quality of the product.
by danial on 5/29/19, 7:10 PM
If you're reading this, I'm so sorry this happened to you, Russ.
The problem is worse than being de-ranked for your keywords. The search is downright broken. Searching for 'predictive weight loss tracker', 'predictive weight tracker', anything with 'tracker' yields no results on my phone. Removing 'tracker' and only searching for 'Predictive Weight' or 'Predictive Weight Loss' gives me only one result: Happy Scale.
It almost seems like they're filtering your app on the 'tracker' keyword. That's not fair!
by xwdv on 5/29/19, 6:31 PM
Take it from someone who’s worked with client apps making ten times as many downloads at similar price points: if you want to be successful in the app business you need to look beyond optimizing App Store search terms. You need to be marketing and promoting your application across multiple channels to a wider audience. It does not sound like this developer was doing that, so while it is sad he has had revenue slashed in half overnight he could have avoided this kind of big hit if he was reinvesting some portion of revenue back into promoting his application.
by jwr on 5/29/19, 6:14 PM
This is why I think every app should be sold in a subscription model. The current users of this app are very happy with it, and yet they will suffer when the developer can't make enough new sales. It's like a Ponzi scheme: everything falls down if you can't enroll enough new users. That's not sustainable.
by microtherion on 5/29/19, 9:44 PM
As an Apple employee (not in any role related to the app store), and satisfied user of Happy Scale, I'm sorry to hear about the ranking loss.
On the other hand, it's in the nature of machine learning systems such as search that sometimes, a simple update of the underlying model can lead to drastic changes in search results (say, for argument's sake, that there has been a recent influx of apps using the word "tracker", which could lead to the word being considered essentially noise).
This can happen without any "bug" in the underlying system, even less a sinister agenda to undermine any developer or help another one. So while these possibilities can and should be investigated, ultimately search results will sometimes change.
by stcredzero on 5/29/19, 6:11 PM
This is one of the primary ways that the culture's general knowledge is lagging behind technology. Our culture still thinks in terms of "notoriety," as was known in Julius Caesar's day. Andy Warhol was a bit more advanced. ("Everyone will have their 15 minutes of fame.") In 2019, the mental model should change to encompass algorithmic and viral discovery.
In 2019, it's not just reputation which matters. It's not just the ability to merely publish which matters. It's the ability to leverage algorithmic and viral discovery which truly matters. In 2019, the people who control algorithmic and viral discovery are the ones who hold the reins of cultural and commercial power behind the scenes.
In 2019, having the ability to publish, but not having a solid strategy over discovery, is like in 1960, concentrating on the newspapers and neglecting television. In 2019, ceding control over algorithmic and viral discovery to a few megacorporations is handing over the keys to the most potent commercial and cultural power.
by floatingatoll on 5/29/19, 5:44 PM
Changing the tagline to "Predictive Weight Tracker" might have an interesting (positive) effect, for a variety of reasons. It seems likely Apple has downrated the phrase "weight loss" altogether.
It's odd that the app marketing doesn't explain how it's useful once you reach a target, and doesn't offer any hint that it can be used to set weight gain targets for people who are looking to reach a new weight class. If I reach my weight loss target, does the app become useless?
by mrkstu on 5/29/19, 6:19 PM
I think he already has his answer- Apple doesn't guarantee search placement- though it is odd that he'd fall all the way off altogether.
If you're relying on Apple (or Google) to feature you in their search results, you're already at their whim with no recourse.
by bfoks on 5/30/19, 11:49 AM
Possible explanation why it happened: https://twitter.com/ilyakuh/status/1134008287068921856
by segmondy on 5/29/19, 7:09 PM
Why should he hold Monopoly on search placement for the phrase "weight tracker"? The other side of this story is that another developer is now happy to be able to feed their family.
by TomSwift73 on 5/29/19, 11:44 PM
I don't know if this is the issue Russ is having or not, but I thought I would post here (I've also emailed Russ). I experienced similar drop-off this week with an app of mine which has been in the App Store for several years. I wouldn't have noticed except I checked after reading Russ's post.
My app has space-separated keywords in the Appstore Connect portal. They've always been space-separated and I can't remember the last time I updated them. But the App Store guidance says to comma-separate keywords. Indeed, the newer apps I work on for my day job have comma-separated keywords. Could Apple have changed how keywords are parsed, and broken older keyword sets that used to be valid but now are not?
I'll be updating my app tonight and the keywords along with it; time will tell if this is the culprit.
by Isamu on 5/29/19, 7:14 PM
Anybody have experience with buying app store ads? I wonder if they could provide a crucial bump in a situation like this where presumably the reviews are good but you drop because of things beyond your control.
by kevin_b_er on 5/29/19, 7:04 PM
The developer learned the hard lesson of relying on a walled garden for livelihood. A livelihood that can be taken away without reason or recourse. Looks like they were all in on Apple, too.
by anjc on 5/29/19, 10:12 PM
Is the functionality of your app already included in the Health app? If not, take a guess what feature will be soon included in the Health app. Apple have a history of killing competitors in the App Store, most recently with screen time apps:
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/27/tech/apple-screen-time-ap...
by jedberg on 5/29/19, 6:34 PM
Man, if only there were an alternate app store or another way for people to get his app on their phone...
by waynecochran on 5/29/19, 11:09 PM
Just installed the app. I wish I found this one earlier.
by mproud on 5/29/19, 6:57 PM
Silver lining: HN readers now know about your app.
by msmollin on 5/29/19, 5:03 PM
This is truly unfortunate and I hope Apple resolves this. Happy Scale is a fantastic product and it would be a shame to see the developer have to give this up full time.
by dangwu on 5/30/19, 1:51 AM
One of the things I did with Octal [1] a while back was experiment with different title/subtitle combinations, noting where my app landed in the search results for 'hacker news' for each variation. Then I picked the one that ranked the highest.
Example variations were:
Octal
Hacker News Client
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Octal for Hacker News
Tech, programming, and startup news
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Octal - Hacker News
Social tech news from Hacker News
[1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id1308885491?mt=8
by binarysolo on 5/30/19, 12:08 AM
Seems like Apple changed the search/discovery algo and he got hit with it.
Don't think anything particularly devious has happened, but seems like the App Store search team really hit some folks who were trying to organically build a good app/biz over time. For what it's worth there's some pretty good feedback here for AppStore search + customers who voted up the app individually, so hope that helps.
by CurlyDay on 5/29/19, 5:57 PM
Happy scale created a way for me to track what i was doing every morning already - jumping on the scale while looking at the mirror....
by prohoney on 5/29/19, 6:11 PM
I hope that Apple will soon give an explanation. I suspect your app is not the only one to take a hit.
by _Codemonkeyism on 5/29/19, 8:15 PM
Had hoped there was a happy ending, hope for the dev and his family that there will be one.
by laurentrivard on 5/29/19, 5:54 PM
That's terrible and really puts indie developers at risk. One small change on Apple's side and your business might not survive. Hope Apple fixes it quickly!
by edisonjoao on 5/31/19, 7:30 PM
wow.
by stingraycharles on 5/29/19, 6:34 PM
Reddit did the same. I was a paid user of Alien Blue (no ads), then Reddit acquired it, killed it and now we have the new Reddit ad-rich app.