by edtechstrats on 5/20/19, 12:48 PM with 290 comments
by gdhbcc on 5/20/19, 1:19 PM
Drivers dont want to drive for under a certain value, so they simply inform the app who adjusts the value to fulfill demand. Seems like its what you want to happen.
by radcon on 5/20/19, 1:47 PM
Contractors get to set rates, employees don't. So you can't say they're contractors AND accuse them of committing fraud when they try to set their own rates.
Now if only someone would develop an app that does this for entire cities. The app could be their version of a union.
by wlesieutre on 5/20/19, 1:22 PM
If Lyft wants to decide when their drivers are working, there's a process for this:
1) Hire employees
2) Give them a schedule
3) Pay them hourly plus mileage
by cypherpunks01 on 5/20/19, 1:37 PM
Contractors can decide when and how they want to work, and therefore determine the price at which to sell their labor at, so to me it seems they are simply exercising their rights here. Like others have mentioned, if most drivers don't choose to participate, then this "scheme" wouldn't function.
by llamataboot on 5/20/19, 2:50 PM
One is that the workers are getting paid more per the algorithm that these companies designed to charge customers - that is, they are getting the company to facilitate higher payments but the company itself isn't being charged more! So in that case, the drivers are simply arguing that uber/lyft are artificially undervaluing their time because clearly these passengers are willing to pay 15% more to them to get home...
--
It is telling to me how often Lyft/Uber/et all emphasize that their philosophy is that these gig economy jobs are just something you do a tiny bit extra to get some extra cash in your pocket. That is they are designed to be a small supplement to the job that provides you with most of your income, so hey, we don't really have to worry about working conditions, etc.
But I'm not sure I believe their stats. Over the past few years it is nearly 100% of the drivers I get that are doing it full-time, and many/most of the "teacher moonlighting for extra vacation money" type drivers have given way to lots of former actual taxi drivers who quit their taxi company and now work both uber/lyft.
by Konnstann on 5/20/19, 1:19 PM
I wonder if this figure takes into account all the waiting time, or just driving time on the app. If it is the latter, then that's a pretty scummy thing to say, considering that most drivers spend less than a third of the time actually driving people to their destination, putting the actual number closer to 7.00 an hour.
by CPLX on 5/20/19, 2:28 PM
When highly paid executives, investors, and board members coordinate their efforts to increase their pay what does the media call it?
by _Microft on 5/20/19, 1:17 PM
by giaour on 5/20/19, 1:20 PM
by Waterluvian on 5/20/19, 1:22 PM
by jermaustin1 on 5/20/19, 1:39 PM
Since they are all independent contractors, they are "rivals" in the same industry, so with all of them cooperating to increase fares for their benefit (and based on my understanding of the law), they are technically colluding.
by Shivetya on 5/20/19, 3:25 PM
I do find it annoying that these drivers are upset at the fees. Look, before then all you could do is work for a taxi service and they make uber and lyft look like saints for the most part. you are free to work for whomever you want and you got into the deal knowing what it was.
by smadge on 5/20/19, 7:45 PM
These statistics could be very misleading. For example let’s say one driver works 4 hours, another 6 hours, another 10 hours with all three making making $25/hr and the final one works 80 hours making $10/hour. In this scenario 75% of drivers are driving 10 or less hours a week and the mean driver hourly rate is over $20. However 80% of the hours driven are by one driver making $10/hour. This one driver is clearly the workhorse of the ride-sharing company making the bulk of the profit.
by ackbar03 on 5/20/19, 2:21 PM
by codedokode on 5/20/19, 2:44 PM
Also, in a Lyft's statement:
> Over 75% drive less than 10 hours a week to supplement existing jobs.
I wonder, are those 75% working part-time or full-time? It must be tiring driving 2 more hours after 9-hour working day.
by bradleybuda on 5/20/19, 4:09 PM
Instead, Uber presumably has historic estimates of the supply and demand curves at different locations, different times of the week, different passenger / rider populations (business travelers or tourists?) and then uses the measured “true” supply and demand to find a clearing price, and therefore decide whether or not a market is going to surge.
The UX of surge is important too - the raison d’être of surge pricing is to bring more drivers to an undersupplied market. That means that when you detect a supply or demand shock that would lead to surge pricing, you want to increase the surge as quickly as possible to send out the “we need more drivers” signal, because there’s a latency in getting more supply (drivers have to relocate). Conversely, Uber doesn’t want to drop the surge price too quickly - they want downward movement to be sticky - because you don’t want to tell drivers “there’s more money to be made over here” just to renege on that promise before the supply can even get there.
So if surge is sticky on the way down, these drivers may have found a way to exploit the pricing algorithm - simulate a price shock then reap the rewards. If surge were not sticky on the way down, this strategy might be much less effective - a few drivers would get better fares, but the market would return to equilibrium faster.
None of this is to say that you can’t have cartel behavior in a “bid-ask”-style market too, but I suspect this is a “hack” of Uber’s pricing UX as much as anything else.
by hn_throwaway_99 on 5/20/19, 1:18 PM
by duxup on 5/20/19, 2:20 PM
The entire gig economy is based on shifting risk onto the contractor (demand changes, benefits, protections regarding injury / illness)... and to some extent onto the consumer too.
by mimixco on 5/20/19, 2:58 PM
by sixQuarks on 5/20/19, 1:19 PM
by peterwwillis on 5/20/19, 1:37 PM
I think the only long-term business plan that makes sense for them is black cars, or people who don't want the hassle of Taxis.
by dmbaggett on 5/20/19, 2:58 PM
by francisofascii on 5/20/19, 1:25 PM
by deweller on 5/20/19, 1:21 PM
Are they really getting paid $4 to give someone a ride? That seems so low that drivers would be incentivized to find another job.
by blakesterz on 5/20/19, 1:24 PM
"The lot fills with 120 to 150 drivers sometimes for hours, waiting for the busy evening rush. "
Are they saying drivers site and wait for hours to do this?
by rrival on 5/20/19, 2:36 PM
by traeregan on 5/20/19, 5:49 PM
Note: I am a third-party PM working with the web and mobile application teams.
by chrischen on 5/20/19, 6:58 PM
by Causality1 on 5/20/19, 1:28 PM
by diydsp on 5/20/19, 6:43 PM
Uber/Lyft make more money this way. The passengers are getting screwed.
by kdot on 5/20/19, 1:57 PM
by ikeboy on 5/20/19, 4:27 PM
by awake on 5/20/19, 3:12 PM
by calvinbhai on 5/20/19, 2:00 PM
They did this since the early days of Surge Pricing.
by 40acres on 5/20/19, 6:30 PM
by rmrfrmrf on 5/20/19, 4:05 PM
by exabrial on 5/20/19, 1:28 PM
If uber and lyft do nothing, this behavior will autocorrect itself: expect a few drivers to rebel/revolt after the news of the behavior spreads. Keeping the secret will get harder and harder.
by sfifs on 5/20/19, 11:55 PM
by zone411 on 5/20/19, 2:53 PM
by sharadov on 5/20/19, 4:52 PM
by asdffdsa on 5/21/19, 12:56 AM
by frgtpsswrdlame on 5/20/19, 1:22 PM
by tzs on 5/20/19, 1:26 PM
With the drivers classified as independent contractors rather than employees would cooperation between drivers to manipulate prices run afoul of antitrust law?
by htk on 5/20/19, 1:25 PM