from Hacker News

Germany proposes $2,800 fine for parents skipping measles vaccination

by RobertSmith on 5/6/19, 4:11 PM with 55 comments

  • by mullingitover on 5/6/19, 5:39 PM

    Just last week a person infected with measles spent several hours in Terminal 2 at LAX, and several more at The Grove and the LA Farmer's Market. Measles is no joke, something like 90% of people exposed to a measles carrier will come down with it if they're not immunized. Germany is on the right track, I think their only mistake is not making this fine operate on a sliding scale.

  • by Vinnl on 5/6/19, 4:43 PM

    I wonder if and how much a fine of, say, €5 would work. It wouldn't be the first case where a small nudge would be enough to make a change, and it would surely be a lot less controversial.

  • by sorryforthethro on 5/6/19, 4:48 PM

    The rich/poor gap in the vaccine debate is pretty shocking. Not just these legal fines (cheap if you're rich), but the "alternative vaccine schedule" that some (very few) doctors recommend is also expensive and not covered by commoner insurance.

  • by acd on 5/6/19, 4:39 PM

    There is a concept called herd immunity. When enough people have taken vaccination against a disease it stops spreading because if cannot infect more people. If people then stop taking vaccines herd immunity does not work.

    Herd immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

  • by the_70x on 5/6/19, 6:32 PM

    kids not vaccinated are not allowed to go to school works better

  • by sprash on 5/6/19, 4:40 PM

    I hope this will get shut down at the constitutional court. No matter how you stand towards vaccinations. You can not force sovereign citizens to undergo any medical treatment in a free country. What is next? Mandatory sterilization of people with undesired traits? The Slippery slope starts here.

  • by sgeisler on 5/6/19, 5:02 PM

    That's just cruel, it takes away choice of people about their own bodies.

    I totally see the point of this proposal, but you could achieve a better outcome with less authoritarian rules: just forbid non-vaccinated kids to go to public schools, kindergartens, to ride public transport, etc. That would still leave you with the choice of living away from other humans and taking care of your children at home without endangering anyone _and_ without taking away the right to control what happens to your body. In the end most people would choose to just get vaccinated.

    I especially wonder what happens to people that just pay the fine, are their children still allowed to go to public schools? If yes you didn't really solve the problem, you just created another tax.

  • by averros on 5/6/19, 11:33 PM

    Here's a good rule of thumb: if you are a mentally competent adult and are forced to do something, this something is not in YOUR best interests.

    A propos: the "herd immunity" line of argumentation is totally red herring, since the Western rate of immunization is way above of what is needed for herd immunity to be effective (defined as driving pathogen reproduction rate below one - note that reproduction rate is NOT the same as infection rate). So is the "recklessness" line of argumentation, since the chances of actually getting infected and suffering serious consequences of that are rather small. It's way more reckless to cross a street once a day.

    We should have the "Say No to Totalitarians" day. A free society can tolerate some amount of foolishness - both because not doing so implies reduction of humans to livestock, and because fools sometimes turn out to be right.