from Hacker News

Quitting my job has been the best thing I've done for my career

by jhu247 on 10/12/18, 6:18 PM with 224 comments

  • by bradneuberg on 10/13/18, 2:22 AM

    I've been in the industry nearly 20 years and I always take breaks between jobs. I've worked for startups, Google, Dropbox, non-profits, etc. Between jobs I've pursued personal growth, traveled extensively, re-tooled my CS skill sets in new directions, gotten healthy, done extensive open source work, and more. I highly recommend it to others in the industry if you have the ability to do so; it's only helped my personal and professional career not hurt it.

    Live your own life and don't let others tell you how you're supposed to exist.

  • by dunkelheit on 10/12/18, 10:20 PM

    Recently quite a few articles appeared on HN about escaping the rat race for a while and taking some time off. As someone who has a little savings and who is a bit burnt out I've been toying with the idea myself quite a bit. My biggest fear is that because I have only a vague idea of what I want to do with my time, I will fritter away my sabbatical, not accomplish much and end up pretty much at the same point (but with less money). OTOH maybe my ideas about what I want to do are vague precisely because I don't have much time to flesh them out.
  • by lovelearning on 10/13/18, 1:50 AM

    A "gap" seems to be almost like a crime no tech worker should dare do. I have seen otherwise rational coworkers reject resumes only for having a "gap". Most want to relax, but the same people also punish those who do just that. I thought it was a quirk of the society I live in, but from comments here, it looks like it's the norm in all countries.
  • by adamnemecek on 10/12/18, 11:31 PM

    I recommend quitting your job even if you don't have anything lined up. Read those books you wanted to read. Contribute to open source (people contact me with consulting work thanks to this). Learn new frameworks. You'll figure out something. Go network. I sometimes contact maintainers of open source projects I contribute to. This is the best networking advice anyone can give you. 1337 h4xx0rz don't go to meetups. However they are very willing to talk to people who help them with their projects. These are the people you should be meeting.

    Take time off (I definitely needed it, my anxiety was through the roof, my sleep schedule was really fucked up). The days just seemed to be slipping away. Work was both stressful and boring. I'm actually pretty happy these days which is something I haven't felt in a long time.

    I've convinced two friends to do the same, they are both very thankful.

    My skills are 10x what they used to be. There is a lot of non-linear gains from working 10 hours a day at your pace, on shit you care about. There are days where in 2 days I do stuff that might have taken me 2 weeks previously.

    My confidence as a programmer has also really improved. Like few things are truly impossible given enough time.

    The thing to remember is that even if your thing doesn't work out, you'll be in a better position.

    Hit me up if you want to talk about your plans, my email is in my profile.

    Check out the project I'm working on if you feel like it http://ngrid.io.

  • by ian0 on 10/13/18, 1:02 AM

    If you want to re-enter the workforce without any ill effect from the break - it really helps if you do something!

    If your going to travel, travel. Travel around the world, drive the pan-american highway. Travel can be cheap as long as you can save up enough for transport to a cheap country: Go to mexico, learn spanish. Go to India, live on a mountaintop. Its actually fun to keep in the loop tech wise from a random location somewhere! And the hiring manager in two years time will be jealous, not suspicious.

    If you really want to work (during your only long holiday for the next 30 years!), then make that your focus. Make the side project happen, join an accelerator, make it a full time job - because it will be if its successful. If its to learn a new field (carpentry, art, mechanic) then take the time to be become an apprentice, don't just google youtube videos.

    Do something fun. Take a few chances. And I can pretty much guarantee you wont regret it at all.

  • by Cursuviam on 10/12/18, 11:40 PM

    I've been treating my sabbatical time post graduation as basically summer vacation and honestly, it's been pretty nice. For the past 4 years, I've been researching, in school, or working an internship, so I haven't had a period of time to just be carefree for quite sometime.

    I'm very happy right now, but mostly that's because I have a roommate who's unemployed right now, so most of the time I'm not alone in the house and have another person to go on adventures with, as well as have most of my network of college friends and friends still in college around.

    On the con side, I've discovered that unstructured working at home descends quickly into distraction and browsing HN too much. I think I might try setting time each day where I go to a coffeeshop and work on coding projects, creative writing, and reading, as the change of scenery might help change my focus modal.

    Finally, I recognize that I'm incredibly privileged to be able to do this. Having well-payed internships and a 1%'er family is giving me an opportunity for relaxation and travel that most Americans lack. I'm planning on spending more of my hiatus time volunteering for local causes for what I wish I could say is the goodness of my heart, but is honestly out of guilt and boredom.

  • by stephengillie on 10/13/18, 12:12 AM

    When I feel burned out, I take a contract position with a BigCo. The pay is still good, the problems are still relevant, and the slower pace is quite restorative. Plus it leaves merely a scar on your resume instead of a gap.
  • by benburleson on 10/12/18, 10:23 PM

    One thing I realized more recently is the value of building your nest egg early. Sure, you have many years down the road to earn money, but the later you earn it, the less time that money will be working for you. Put it away early, don't touch it, and it quietly grows. Burn down your reserves now, and you get no benefit of all the upcoming years of interest (or ROI, etc).
  • by jgamman on 10/13/18, 3:48 AM

    in NZ (and Aus i guess) we call this an OE (Overseas Experience) and it is incredibly common for someone in their 20's to up sticks and bugger off to the UK (and others) for several months or years.

    They/we aren't, for the most part, privileged - they land in London with 50 quid, buy an A-Z at the airport and doss with friends under the kitchen table till they land a job doing whatever. Save and party until summer and then a long af van trip around Europe seeing the sights. Rinse and repeat if you've got the stomach for it. Variations exist.

    The leaving your country part is the important part. Even if it's English speaking you'd be surprised at the resilience you need to just get s* done arriving somewhere at midnight with no idea where you're going to sleep.

    Being punished for 'gaps' in your CV is a cultural thing. There are no gaps in your life, just... life.

  • by juancampa on 10/12/18, 10:26 PM

    I am currently doing something like this. I quit my job to embark in a the most ambitious project of my life and so far it's been quite the experience.

    One thing that I've discovered working on my own is the value of solitude. When I'm really alone, I can talk to myself out loud and I've found that it allows me to think 10X clearer. Maybe it's just me, but externalizing my thoughts without bothering about what others think it's great for creativity.

  • by amrx431 on 10/13/18, 7:31 AM

    Many paradigms of life don't apply if you are a citizen of a developing country with billion people in it and you happen to be the first person in the history of your family who doesn't work as an agricultural labourer on a landlords field.
  • by patcon on 10/13/18, 6:26 AM

    I've taken a couple breaks in between jobs, and I've come to realize that I have my very best work-life balance while unemployed. It's uncanny.

    I work hard on my community projects, and then actually go out and socialize when I'm tired of working. Sometimes that's every night, but sometimes (if I'm feeling invigorated by a task), I will work nonstop for a week, before I need a social recharge.

    Obviously, that is a single person's perspective of it, but I feel like it would be comparable if I'd been in a relationship :)

  • by trycrmr on 10/13/18, 11:41 AM

    Does anyone else see articles like this and think about how much money in retirement they're foregoing? By not maxing out 401k & IRA deposits each year in your 20s you're missing out on significant gains from compound interest later in life. A sabbatical like this makes sense to me when you're comfortable with the trajectory of your retirement. The other situation is where significant mental health issues that can't be sorted out by adjusting schedule & lifestyle around work are going to negatively impact your career anyways. It could be worth it to take the loss on retirement account deposits to sort things out.
  • by 09bjb on 10/13/18, 2:24 AM

    Just came here to say that I think protecting your CV at all costs from any kind of "gap" is some of the most overrated career advice out there. Take risks, show some self-direction and self-respect. Companies and colleagues will help you, but only you can steer the ship of your career trajectory. Follow the currents underneath you at your own risk.
  • by filmgirlcw on 10/12/18, 11:55 PM

    I appreciate that the author acknowledged his privilege (both economically and his support system) and that he said it’s not intended to be prescriptive (except that even with that disclaimer, the takeaway is still prescriptive — otherwise why write it this way?), but so many people — even from similarly privileged backgrounds — can’t do something like this, and I would argue shouldn’t.

    If you graduate with lots of student loans, aren’t making a salary that makes it easy to save (which is common even for high earners in expensive cities), and don’t have a network to get reliable freelance/contract work (assuming what you do could be freelanced/contracted out — engineering can but some jobs/skillsets are much harder to do, especially if you’re in your 20s), this is the sort of thing that might be good for your mental and physical well-being, but could end up causing more stresses in the future.

    As others have said, fair or not, having gaps on a resume can be problematic (and ageism in tech is a real thing) when trying to reseek employment. At the very least, re-entering the workforce at the same level (assuming you left at “senior” or a mid-level equivalent) might be tough. I suppose if you were a junior dev or just starting out, it would be easier to come back at the same level — but rob may not have the same burnout in that case.

    That said, I do think it’s very valuable to recognize what you want and what you don’t want out of life and a career. And that might mean not being in the rat race in your 20s and it might mean realizing you don’t aspire to have the lifestyle that comes with being a well-paid tech worker if it means you have no work/life balance and are slowly killing yourself.

    I used to dream about just quitting my job and taking a sabbatical. I was too scared that after the break was over, I wouldn’t be able to find employment the same way. Maybe that was unfounded, but that was my fear.

    I wound up switching careers and even though I make more money, I have a better work/life balance and I no longer dream of quitting. And for what it’s worth, the extra money is nice — but if I made what I made before and had the same lifestyle I have now, it would be worth it. I’d even take a pay cut.

  • by woohoo7676 on 10/12/18, 10:31 PM

    Good article, I did this several years ago (or rather I quit, got a part time contract job, then went full sabbatical).

    Definitely agree with the negatives, the procrastination and loneliness is very real when you're on your own. I tried to make my own app and started getting depressed when I associated its failure with my own (since who else do you have to blame).

    Still don't regret it though, I think it actually helped my career by forcing me to learn parts of running a business and programming I never would have done otherwise. But it's not all roses for sure.

  • by rb808 on 10/12/18, 10:39 PM

    If you've seen Europeans backpacking around Asia, Australians in Europe or Canadians in South America, its a common thing - with people from countries with a firm safety net. Its a pity Americans dont get that same security and have to work work work.
  • by shazam on 10/12/18, 10:32 PM

    So how did it benefit his career?
  • by i_made_a_booboo on 10/13/18, 8:50 AM

    I'm pretty much coming to the end of mine now. Except I feel burnt out from the sabbatical whereas I generally always felt pretty good at work.

    I read a shit tonne this last 8 months and have noticed a big upgrade in my worldview. I shipped a couple of projects on my own which I'm proud of too.

    I grew immensely from the experience and a whole bunch of things I always toyed with the idea while working I actually got to try out and see how I really felt about them and not how I thought I was going to feel.

    The recruiters being suspicious about the time off thing is something I wasn't suspecting but I did get that vibe. I made a point to network the whole time I was taking off and have been invited to visit a small company I'm pretty excited about after an hour chatting to the CTO. Political savvy was one of my unexpected skills at my last job, so I feel like so long as I can get in a room I can get a job (provided I'm actually interested and think the company would be a good fit).

    So many lessons learned. Perhaps both good and bad.

  • by meuk on 10/13/18, 8:03 AM

    After my graduation, I planned to have some months off to work on hobby stuff, and build a small portfolio with programming projects. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to finish my thesis in time (which is my own fault, but at my university it was also business as usual to take more time than planned for your master thesis). I already had a job and didn't have any time off between my thesis and working (in fact, I started working before I even graduated).

    I should have spent some more time on job hunting, in retrospect. At my current job as a consultant I am back-end code-monkeying in a large team where most developers don't have a technical background - it's not very challenging from a technical perspective (even though I like the working environment in other aspects). My current employer pushes me to get certified for some front-end technologies, which I don't find interesting (and have no value for the gig I'm currently assigned to).

    My true interest are OSes, drivers, optimization, FPGA's, electronics, compilers, assembly, microcontrollers, graphics... But I can't seem to find a job in that field, mostly because I don't have work experience in those fields. I also have a tendency to be very humble about my experience, which I think is a good thing in general, but I think sometimes people wrongly classify me as 'very junior'. On top of that, everybody seems to be looking for C# programmers, but the pay seems to be a bit lower in more technical fields. I don't care that much about my salary, but right now I am the one with literally the best background (4 academic studies), and the lowest income (basically every time I talk about it with someone, he/she goes "hm, that's pretty low"). I have had some good offers (about 15% more than I currently earn), but they came with a traineeship which seemed not very challenging and would force me to stay with that company for 2 years.

    A very common scenario I end up in is that I'm talking to a very enthousiastic HR person ("I think you're a very good fit for our company!"), but the offer ends up very low ("Well, you're a junior after all.").

    I am thinking about quitting my current job to brush up some skills (mainly Python, Vulkan, OpenGL, and some OS API stuff) and build a portfolio, but I'm too afraid to be unproductive and end up in a worse situation than before (about 1 year of working experience and a giant gap in my CV after that). Has anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice?

  • by blablabla123 on 10/13/18, 8:36 AM

    > Project managing my life

    Actually I started setting up a Redmine to pursue more complex goals that are usually not related to work.

    In the past I also used classical todo lists on a sheet of paper or Asana for some time. But I gave up both, what I observed happens after using this 'tool' after a while: indeed a lot gets done, it's even fulfilling check an item, especially on paper. So after a year or so, the things on the list end up being more and more difficult to do. The only easy tasks are the recently added ones but the list becomes more and more static.

    Problem with todo lists is that they are the end product of some ideas that happen at random times. But you lose the idea behind it, so a proper project management tool is worth it. (In fact when you look at how Asana developed over time, it converges into something like that...)

  • by rvn1045 on 10/13/18, 12:37 AM

    Im doing pretty much the same thing since the beginning of the year. the absolute biggest thing thats helped me is meditating for 1-2 hours a day. when you don't have distractions and you have meditated for that long - you get laser like focus, super clear thinking, and ability to absorb and synthesize way more information. funny the article mentions self actualization - I did not start of with that goal in mind and starting to meditate introduced me to a lot of literature around religion - and you start looking at your life in a completely different way.
  • by octygen on 10/20/18, 5:38 AM

    I'll be really honest. I haven't done it ever and I regret it. I AM planning what I call a monk year now. I also interview people that have done it so I've been on the other side.

    Conclusion: It's really all about a plan first, discipline about the plan's boundaries and self-confidence when you present your achievements after. Else you may be viewed as a lazy hedonist.

    E.g., My PLAN is to take year to train for an Ironman. That's about 4h a day on average. I'd also eat well, stretch and keep up with the ancillaries of such hard training to prevent injuries. Then I'd be studying 4 online courses à day in whatever I want. My goal would be to finish a few nanodegrees and a few specializations on Coursera. Courses would be about 5h per day. Every day, non-stop. At the end, I would have done one Ironman AND add a whole lot of skill to my arsenal. It's not cheap - calculated it to be about $40K so far with a mortgage and rent to pay but I'm working on creative ways to lessen this. Last but not least, I have three non-profit projects I want to do. One huge dream, one medium, one small. If I went to an interview à year after this starts having been disciplined enough to accomplish even 75% the above, I'm pretty sure not even the hardest interviewer would be skeptical.

    Basically, I view the monk year as the year where I still grind. But I grind to add value to yours truly NOT the corporation.

  • by ffanon on 10/13/18, 3:53 PM

    I've managed to get myself into what some might consider an ideal situation: a half-time job at BigCo. It means my work at BigCo is more interesting and condensed, and of course it means I have all the time in the world for side projects. BigCo total comp is so incredible that half of it still pays the bills in ExpensiveCity.

    Except all the challenges echoed by others in the comments are real: overcoming procrastination and doing focused work. Actually the former I can manage, the latter is harder. All I have to show for side project time is a long list of smaller projects, I can't manage to take one of them and build/polish it into something significant. Somehow having the choice 100 fun project makes devoting time to just 1 super hard.

    Maybe half-time off to some extend is worse for procrastination than full-time, since I can always fall back on my work at BigCo as a sign of progress in my life.

    This situation should be ideal, I know the path I should take, the opportunity is there for the taking, but so far have not managed.

  • by __exit__ on 10/13/18, 9:43 AM

    Thanks to the author for this piece, it was a nice and inspiring reading.

    I cannot help but feel related to the author himself. My career, short in tech terms (2+ years at current job, similar durarion at previous job) has reached a stagnant phase, where motivation and professional growth almost do not exist.

    As a consequence I'm thinking of switching jobs, but have no idea where should I aim for, for what kind of role and industry I would like to work for...Right now I'm lost regarding jobs lookup.

    Maybe I should take a sabbatical period to think things over, but it's quite a leap forward, mostly economically.

  • by leksak on 10/13/18, 6:08 AM

    Reading most of these comments, and the article itself, I can't help but think that the rat race is just replaced with another race as it seems imperative to work on something for a lot of you that have written here which I find curious, even though I can relate and understand it.

    At the moment, career wise, om not in a position to go down in hours but that is what I'll explore in the future. A 6 hour workday, working remotely more often and/or trying to split my workday up by going to the gym during work hours. This is tough though with meetings and all that.

  • by shurcooL on 10/13/18, 3:14 AM

    Nice writeup. It's very valuable that you took the time to share a unique experience with everyone.

    I've also done a 1.5 year sabbatical, and I can relate. It's both very challenging (to pull off successfully) but also can be very rewarding.

  • by desdiv on 10/13/18, 3:03 AM

    What do you guys think of the idea of companies giving their employees the option of taking (up to) one year long unpaid sabbaticals?

    It would cost the company next to nothing, and it would be a preferable alternative to the employee quitting due to stress or burnout.

    For the employee it significantly lowers their risk of unemployment. They can either 1. go to a better company, or 2. return to their old company.

    In the case of US companies, there's also the added benefit of the possibility of the employee and employer coming to a mutually beneficial arrangement on maintaining the employee's healthcare plan during the sabbatical.

  • by ejanus on 10/13/18, 7:21 AM

    I have been without job for a while now ,and I won't mind to getting back. It has not worked out as I would have love.
  • by JonasJSchreiber on 10/13/18, 4:06 AM

    What you've written is incredibly mature, well-articulated, and insightful. I hope you succeed in your solo endeavors!
  • by curyous on 10/13/18, 3:21 AM

    Where does it say it was good for his career?
  • by turtlecloud on 10/13/18, 3:49 AM

    Ya dude I feel ya. MZ was a sweatshop!

    Did the same - took a sabbatical. The main thing is to come up with a cool story of what you did.

  • by lurcio on 10/13/18, 6:55 AM

    The right to useful unemployment.
  • by JDiculous on 10/14/18, 3:23 PM

    Why is everybody so hung up on how it'll affect your career? As if everything in life must be rationalized by its impact on your career.

    Maybe he creates a successful business and never has to work for anyone else again, maybe not. Either way the author will have had the valuable experience of not only trying to build a business, but also living life on his own terms - something that we give up (often without realizing it) when we sell ourselves to the corporate world.

    I'm 10 months into my sabbatical and have spent the last 8 months living in countries/continents I'd never been to, learned about different cultures, improved my Spanish (now trying to learn Russian), met a ton of people, and grown enormously as a person.

    Career-wise and financially was this a good decision? Probably not (at this point at least). But I wouldn't trade any of this for the world. Had I spent another year living in the same damn city doing the same work that I was bored to death of, I might've jumped off a bridge or something (not really, but in hindsight I was depressed without really realizing it).

    I will now shift gears towards working on my own project(s). If it works out - great, I will be living my dream. If it doesn't work out - no problem, I'll figure it out - even if I have to return to the U.S. and find a job again. On my deathbed I'm not going to regret taking a year off to travel the world when I could've spent that year continuing to work a job I was no longer passionate about.

    One of the things I've completely internalized from my travels is that I have no interest in the corporate rat race. I don't care about "career ramifications" because that's not a ladder I want to devote my life to climbing. Last night I hung out with a 21 year old from the hostel who's making $6k/month from online businesses working 1 hour/day, and has spent the last 1.5 years living abroad (I never met these kind of people when I was working my 9-5). That is my dream - not being a tech lead at Google (I don't need $6k/month either, $1.5k/month and I'm good).

    In essence, the sabbatical drove home the point that I had been climbing the wrong ladder. So even if I have to eventually go back to the job market, I will be targeting totally different jobs, and my mindset towards work, money, and life in general is totally different. Before I was living in a permanent state of delayed gratification, saving money with no clear vision for what I was saving it for. Now I have a better idea of what I want out of life. Or maybe I just have more confidence to go out and chase what I want when in the past I would've simply fantasized about it.

    At the end of the day I'd rather try and fail then have lived a safe boring life slaving away in some job I don't care about being depressed and wishing I had the balls to live life on my own terms and go after the life I want.

  • by acconrad on 10/12/18, 9:09 PM

    I'm happy for you but this is a super privileged viewpoint that most people can't really learn from. I'd be happy too if I could just take a year off and do whatever I want. Most people can't do things like traveling to different cities and trying out a new place for 3 months. It's just unrealistic and only reflects and incredibly tiny population.

    More importantly: has it really been the best thing you've done for your career? It sounds like you've had a great time but we don't know how this materially affected your career.

    What about your sabbatical has made your career better now that you've done it? All I've seen is that you've open sourced a Hugo theme, read a few books, and you worked on a side project. Sounds like something plenty of people do with 40 hour workweeks.