from Hacker News

Talent vs. Luck: the role of randomness in success and failure

by manusachi on 7/10/18, 6:49 PM with 27 comments

  • by sctb on 7/10/18, 9:41 PM

  • by abetusk on 7/10/18, 9:30 PM

    N agents are placed in a square grid, each with T_k "talent", chosen from a Normal distribution with mean, m, and variance, v, (chosen to be in the neighborhood of [0,1], e.g. m = 0.6, v = 0.1) and C_k initial capital, with all C_k chosen to be the same initially. N/2 "events" are also placed on the grid, with p of them being "lucky" and (1-p) of them being "unlucky".

    The simulation is run with the "events" wandering around randomly. If an event "hits" an agent, the agent doubles their capital (C_k) with probability T_k, trying to encapsulate the idea of "when preparation meets opportunity". In other words an agent's capital doubles proportional to their "skill" if a "lucky" event hits them.

    An agent's capital is halved if an unlucky event hits them.

    After running the simulation for a certain amount of time, a Pareto distribution is observed for the distribution of capital (C_k). That is, with an initial distribution of "skill" as Gaussian/Normal, the wealth distribution that results is power law.

  • by chucksmash on 7/10/18, 9:13 PM

    "The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives" by Leonard Mlodinow seems topical based on the abstract. I would recommend it as a fairly quick read that presents a perspective you might not have thought much about.

    I avoided it when I first came across it because I was worried (based off of the subtitle) that it'd just be fodder for learned helplessness. It turned out quite good though, and anything but (unless you're a movie studio executive).

  • by eruci on 7/10/18, 9:38 PM

    You may also attribute the possession of various types of intelligence to luck and you are done!

    Richard Wiseman argued quite convincingly that luck is mostly self-made.

    http://richardwiseman.com/resources/The_Luck_Factor.pdf

    In the famous picture-counting experiment, people were grouped into two categories (those who were considered successful/lucky and those unsuccessful/unlucky) and given the the task of counting the number of pictures in a newspaper. People in the "lucky/successful" group found the correct number in less than half the time it took people in the "unlucky/unsuccessful" group.

    There was a small footnote in the front page of the newspaper: "This paper has 47 pictures." Guess which group was more likely to notice that.

  • by 32qwef on 7/10/18, 9:03 PM

    Cue the people saying "yeah but we all make our own luck" or "luck favors the prepared"

    Which misses the point. Of course you have to be good AND lucky to succeed. But not everyone can be lucky. So think of that the next time you're looking a few rungs down the ladder.

  • by ta1234567890 on 7/10/18, 9:20 PM

    FTA "almost never the most talented people reach the highest peaks of success, being overtaken by mediocre but sensibly luckier individuals."

    It's also interesting that regardless of anything, in the end your genes and where/when you were born determine pretty much your whole life, and that's just luck. In the end success attribution to anything but luck is just ego.

  • by grosjona on 7/10/18, 9:45 PM

    It's interesting that 10 years ago, people avoided this subject completely - The authors of such papers would have been accused of being jealous and lazy.

    Now, the idea that we are not a meritocracy is basically common knowledge, it seems that more or less everyone (even among the rich) accepts that this is the reality. I don't think that society has ever been in such a state of economic self-awareness before. Unfortunately, all this doesn't seem to change people's attitude towards wealth; if anything, the rich are getting even richer and the poor are literally being wiped out in the opiate epidemic.

    It seems that luck plays a bigger role than ever and yet the consequences of winning or losing are becoming more extreme at the same time.

  • by projectramo on 7/10/18, 9:39 PM

    TL;DR: Talent (inputs) are normally distributed but wealth (outcomes) have a power law distribution. So talent doesn't determine wealth. What does? Luck. (They do some simulations.)

    I wonder if they're measuring the right kind of input though. IQ is distributed in a bell curve but that is one input. There is hard work, common sense, ambition, and energy. I wonder if you have a multi dimensional bell curve as inputs, you may end up with a power distributed output (all the elements have to line up for success).

    Although, as someone pointed out, talent too is often a matter of luck.

  • by amelius on 7/10/18, 8:58 PM

    The (flawed) assumption that hard work inevitably leads to success is perhaps the biggest reason why capitalism is so successful.