by willlll on 6/14/18, 3:56 PM with 332 comments
by quizme2000 on 6/14/18, 5:17 PM
by LeanderK on 6/14/18, 5:13 PM
I am a cs-student with 3 1/2 year old a machbook pro, which I bought when I started my studies. I must say that I am still very, very satisfied, it's holding up great. Great display, suprsingly good battery life etc.
If something happens to my macbook, i would probalby spend a serious percentage of my savings saving on a new laptop. It's a very imporant part of my life, i do most of my work with it and I highly value the flexibility.
In this hypthetical scenario, i would really like to buy a new macbook and would probably go through a lot of financial pain if they took their line-up seriously. But it's really getting ridiculus.
I really don't understand why they fail so hard to update their hardware.
by slg on 6/14/18, 5:32 PM
So the question is why should Apple update their hardware more frequently? The HN reader, the software developer, or the content creator are simply not big enough audiences to motivate Apple anymore. A MacBook with 2-3 year old hardware does everything that your average Mac user would want.
by macinjosh on 6/14/18, 5:21 PM
by TillE on 6/14/18, 4:11 PM
Yeah. I'd always thought this was a Steve Jobs quirk, but Tim Cook has been in charge for years now and very little has changed in regard to Mac hardware updates.
The Mac Mini is a particularly egregious case. They won't update it, but they won't discontinue it either, so they continue to sell ancient hardware as if it's new. It's baffling, and certainly not indicative that there's some coherent plan being successfully followed.
by jnwatson on 6/14/18, 5:21 PM
I bet they could easily sell 1,000,000+ units of 2015 Macbook Pro laptops with 32GiG RAM and an updated processor/chipset/graphics.
I don't think it is a coincidence that 2015 was their peak unit sales for Mac [1]. 2017 was down from 2015 by 1.3 million units.
1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/276308/global-apple-mac-...
by jakobegger on 6/14/18, 6:45 PM
It also means they only do one thing at a time.
One year they update the iOS App Store, this year they update the Mac App Store, maybe next year they finally get to update the iTunes Store on the Mac.
Once they do release something, they move on to the next thing. If you're not happy with one of the major releases, you'll have to wait five years until the next time they come back to this.
Don't like the new Mac Pro? Maybe the next one in 5 years will be for you.
Did the redesign of the Mac App Store not fulfill your hopes? Maybe the next one in 5 years will be better.
In my opinion, they are failing to scale their vertical integration as the number of products they are selling grows.
In the mean time, other companies that have embraced gradual improvements are running circles around them. The collaboration features of iWork are a joke compared to Google Docs. While Apple is struggling to add proper CSV import to Numbers, Google Sheets offers Pivot Table.
Within short time, Amazon Prime has become so much better than the iTunes Movie Store. Apple has completely lost the lead there. It's crazy that Amazon has a better UI here than Apple.
If you want to get an 8k Display, you need to get a Windows PC, since macOS doesn't support it. If you want to get a 28" Screen with a stylus, you need to get a Windows PC.
by newscracker on 6/14/18, 5:40 PM
At least reduce the prices and be honest instead of following this dirty and unethical practice.
What was even the point of talking about changes to the Mac App Store during WWDC with this poor state of affairs?!
by macinjosh on 6/14/18, 5:18 PM
by PuffinBlue on 6/14/18, 5:11 PM
Give it a massive spec bump and drive the price down like they do (sort of) with the iPad and it'd be a great device to pick up.
Such a small form factor with good specs - it's like a NUC but with MacOS. It'd be great.
by overcast on 6/14/18, 5:22 PM
by pentae on 6/14/18, 5:14 PM
And all those enthusiasts who got them there are now left out in the dark like wet dogs.
by makecheck on 6/14/18, 5:06 PM
by stupidcar on 6/14/18, 5:51 PM
- The revenues and market share of Apple's Mac unit has been stable for years[1]. No big gain, declines or spikes, regardless of how frequently they update, or how close their hardware is to the bleeding edge. Therefore, it makes sense to reduce their expenditure on the Mac until they see a drop in either revenue, market share or profit share, or some other genuine sign of danger beyond the griping of some professionals.
- The personal computer market overall is declining. Spending more for a slightly bigger slice of a shrinking pie isn't worth it, because there's no real opportunity for long-term growth that will please shareholders and analysts.
- Reducing the cadence of Mac hardware updates gradually closes the gap between the performance profiles of the iOS and macOS hardware, which moves them closer to the eventual goal of unifying the mobile and desktop software market.
- More frequent and more regular updates give more power to Apple's suppliers, as they become dependent on them for the components necessary to provide the updates expected by the market. Supply change management is Cook's area of expertise, and by delaying Mac hardware updates, and doing them on an irregular schedule, Apple can reduce supplier leverage, and walk away from deals it considers to be too expensive.
The most important supplier is, of course, Intel, and I think Apple would love to break the industry out of the idea that the supplier tail wags the dog in terms of CPU adoption. E.g. Intel can't just produce a new microarchitecture on their own schedule and assume all manufacturers will rush to adopt it, but instead have to accept a somewhat more subordinate role, whereby the big vendors like Apple can say "this is what we want, this is when we want it, and this is what we'll pay for it."
by doktrin on 6/14/18, 5:35 PM
* the top 5% of the screen is nothing but horizontal flickering lines
* there's a similar vertical line down the middle of the screen, but much smaller
* when the machine heats up, the T and U keys sound like a static discharge
* my left speaker basically doesn't work and just makes popping sounds
by plink on 6/14/18, 5:16 PM
by scarface74 on 6/14/18, 5:16 PM
But the entire MacBook line is completely unappealing at thier current prices and with the unreliable keyboard.
by jacobsenscott on 6/14/18, 5:44 PM
by totalrobe on 6/14/18, 5:31 PM
by htor on 6/14/18, 5:22 PM
by gepeto42 on 6/14/18, 5:33 PM
The iMac Pro is awesome, but the lack of target display mode makes it use a lot of space that can't be used with anything else. Older 27in iMacs were awesome for that - personal Mac for home, use as an external screen for work when working from home, or as an external display for a gaming PC.
Where are we supposed to place the sacrifices to the gods who will keep all of our 5-7 year old Macs alive until the new ones come out?
by bitkarma on 6/14/18, 5:27 PM
by ben_w on 6/14/18, 6:10 PM
Software (including websites) is designed around the limits of “normal” hardware. Right now, that means phones and tablets. That hardware is less powerful than ‘proper’ computers, so any software designed for the average user’s hardware runs so easily on proper computers that there is almost no demand for significant CPU improvement. (GPU is another matter, and will remain so until “photorealistic graphics” stops being an exaggeration).
Yes, there is still the point that the same specs on paper can be bought much more cheaply without the Apple logo. This used to be a regular thing which flipped the other way around for a couple of months whenever Apple released new hardware.
That said, my hypothesis leads to a testable prediction: conventional computers will not improve until tablets and phones are as powerful as them.
by TetOn on 6/14/18, 6:03 PM
Obviously, the Macbook Air and Mini are extreme (and genuinely embarrassing) examples, but generally speaking a ~1yr update cycle (everything else on that page) seems entirely reasonable, especially given Intel's more, uh, deliberate pace in recent years.
by benologist on 6/14/18, 5:42 PM
I think we're kind of the dinosaurs clinging to X86 not them and that's the most annoying part.
by bredren on 6/14/18, 5:52 PM
I believe it is a combination of failed milestones by Intel and a change in direction at Apple regarding use of ARM processors. It was a disappointment to have no HW announcements at WWDC, but I imagine there are folks at Apple who are more disappointed than rogue amoeba.
I run a fully loaded 2015 11' MBA I picked up after returning a well appointed 13" MBP. The battery life was way to weak to justify the high price.
The 2015 11" is showing its age a bit, primarily in rendering on a large 27" with higher resolutions than the apple cinema.
There is no good upgrade path for me right now, in mobility / price / performance.
by jedberg on 6/14/18, 5:50 PM
I currently use a late 2011 MBP as my primary machine, but it's getting a bit long in the tooth.
I'm seriously considering getting a Linux laptop to replace it. I ran linux as my primary from 1998 to 2000, so it's not entirely foreign to me, but it will still be a bit of a switch.
The main thing holding me back is that I make income giving Keynote presentations, and I'm not sure how I'd do that with a Linux laptop without having to carry a second device.
by dracodoc on 6/14/18, 5:48 PM
by acjohnson55 on 6/14/18, 6:06 PM
It seems like Windows has several options for doing Unix development, which was another historical advantage of OS X.
For personal use, all I really want is a 2011-era MBP form factor with modern internals and a modern display (ideally matte). My mid-2010 still has no replacement in sight. I'm not sure the exact PC laptop of my dreams exists, but there are certainly way more options.
by jason_slack on 6/14/18, 8:06 PM
Can anyone recommend a laptop that supports 32gb of RAM, would run MacOS (or Ubuntu, I could get used to) and made of something besides metal? I have allergies to nickel, cobalt and gold. You would be doing me a solid!
by jshaqaw on 6/14/18, 7:41 PM
I echo the sadness here. I have so much sweat, money, and love invested in the Apple platform but when I have to replace my first gen retina MBP I’ll probably just go Windows.
by g3houdini on 6/18/18, 11:15 PM
by usermac on 6/14/18, 5:45 PM
by pier25 on 6/14/18, 7:28 PM
I think (hope) we will start to see nice results in 2019.
by vannevar on 6/14/18, 10:39 PM
by outlog on 6/14/18, 5:42 PM
especially as the thermal properties of intel turboboost is really horrible nowadays on macbook/laptop for dev usage.. (imagine maybe due to the meltdown/spectre slowdown..)
by jshaqaw on 6/14/18, 8:24 PM
by jasonm89 on 6/14/18, 5:38 PM
by karpodiem on 6/14/18, 5:32 PM
by notadoc on 6/14/18, 7:39 PM
The messaging could not be more clear, the real question is why are we all still in denial?
by ksec on 6/14/18, 7:25 PM
Macbook Pro -
Keyboard failure. Forget about the type feeling or depth of key press and the loud sound of it trying to trick your brain as if you have pressed it. It fails, constantly, and consistently. And Apple charges you $400 to $650 for replacing the Keyboard. And BTW if you have Keyboard problem you should convince Apple to replace your battery, which you actually get a Keyboard for free. ( I cant find the post where an Apple employees's rub of telling customer they should have buy AppleCare in the first place. I mean like.... most, if not All big brand Laptop manufacture provides more then one year warranty on their top of the line Pro Laptop. Not Apple )
Trackpad - So large that even with their false positive detection software it is still 1% to 2% error. Some might not be bothered with it. Many do, and hated it.
USB PD - It is basically frying what ever it is plugged in [2], silently. It it wasn't some geeks discover it I bet 99% of the consumer has absolutely no idea what went wrong.
Reliability - So far any Retina MacBook Pro seems to have a higher failure then the old ones in 2012. It is happening a lot more often around me. And I am not sure if this is pure bad luck or what. Old 2012 MBP are solid. Newer 2015 onwards MBP suffer from sudden death, non chargeable battery, screen quality problems etc.
They made MBP more expensive, more prone to failure, also more expensive to repair.
Mac Mini - Is selling this to customer in 2018, morally OK? For this price?
Mac Pro - It took them 3 years to admit they messed up, and 2 more years to come up with a redesign.
Macbook Air - Non Retina TN Screen for $999?
Just went Router hacking got to new level, Apple decide to discontinue their AirPort line. Great.
To add insult to injury, they continue to say they "care" about Mac. When none of their action has proved or showed they do. This is a company that act and execute way faster on the same products when they were a $10B company, now they are close to $1000B.
My friend's MBP just suddenly dead today. Came back, didn't turn on, Magsafe was always on Amber. And he now has to decide what to do, he doesn't want Touchbar, nor the keyboard of newer MBP. The MacBook is way too small screen size. He may be forced to buy refurbished older MBP. Or may be leaving the Mac all together. It really is a sad state.
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/28/snazzy-labs-imac-pro-ve...
by caiob on 6/14/18, 5:13 PM
by mulle_nat on 6/14/18, 5:14 PM
by pwason on 6/14/18, 4:27 PM
by kilon on 6/14/18, 5:43 PM
Then macbook is dead, because of iOS, we have new macbooks.
Then mac pro is dead, because of iOS we have iMac Pro.
Is shouting "dead" the new password for upgrade request ?
I see an average of 1 update in less than a year with the only exception of mac mini. Why we need more often? I fail spectacularly to see the problem here.
Mac users buy computers that keep for years. My first iMac I kept for 7 year my second one is already on its 4 th year and still feel nowhere close to the need to upgrade and I do 3d graphics + coding.
I even live mostly in Windows 10 nowdays , mainly for coding reasons. Flies with no issues. I kinda like Win 10 actually.
Sad is exactly the opposite thing that I feel using my iMac. I feel sad with most pc monitors that I see around though.
Hell, the new OS brings native support for eGPUs , so I can even upgrade my iMac without forking money for an iMac Pro.
The new Metal which was already 10 times faster than the crap... sorry I meant.. OpenGL is reported to be 2 times as fast as the previous version.
Waiter... yes please may I have another plate of sadness soup... I really like it.