by calibas on 4/27/18, 6:55 PM
485650789657397829309841894694286137707442087351357924019652073668698513401047237446968797439926117510973777701027447528049058831384037549709987909653955227011712157025974666993240226834596619606034851742497735846851885567457025712547499964821941846557100841190862597169479707991520048667099759235960613207259737979936188606316914473588300245336972781813914797955513399949394882899846917836100182597890103160196183503434489568705384520853804584241565482488933380474758711283395989685223254460840897111977127694120795862440547161321005006459820176961771809478113622002723448272249323259547234688002927776497906148129840428345720146348968547169082354737835661972186224969431622716663939055430241564732924855248991225739466548627140482117138124388217717602984125524464744505583462814488335631902725319590439283873764073916891257924055015620889787163375999107887084908159097548019285768451988596305323823490558092032999603234471140776019847163531161713078576084862236370283570104961259568184678596533310077017991614674472549272833486916000647585917462781212690073518309241530106302893295665843662000800476778967984382090797619859493646309380586336721469695975027968771205724996666980561453382074120315933770309949152746918356593762102220068126798273445760938020304479122774980917955938387121000588766689258448700470772552497060444652127130404321182610103591186476662963858495087448497373476861420880529443
Call the cops.
by pxmpxm on 4/27/18, 4:49 PM
This line of argument is rather asinine - any information can obviously be encoded into a number, prime or otherwise. Given that there are infinite primes and any amount of proscribed information (national security information, child pornography, trade secrets etc) that can be encoded into them, essentially all prime numbers would be deemed "illegal" under that line of argument.
The authors are clearly targeting unsophisticated audience with that article; feels like the "sovereign citizen" grade of legal analysis.
by jameshart on 4/27/18, 12:37 PM
by ktpsns on 4/27/18, 10:24 AM
As computer scientists and hackers at heart, we all know that text, numbers, pictures, music, movies can be represented in each other (most likely, everything ist represented as a list of numbers, i.e. a bytestring, i.e. a file, nowadays).
The interesting part here is the obvious contradiction that prime numbers seem innocent but in the end, they are numbers, and numbers can represent anything.
Again, the obvious question to rise here is: How is it possible that a government can forbid information?
by _jomo on 4/27/18, 11:00 AM
As pi is infinite, it also stores any imaginable information. Someone actually went ahead and implemented a file system based on this idea:
https://github.com/philipl/pifs
by Zigurd on 4/27/18, 12:56 PM
Beware of technology-generated outrage. If you can encode a message, image, etc. as a number, some messages, like a communication of a specific threat against a specific person, or certain types of porn, that's going to result in "illegal numbers." When put that way, the outrage is pretty weak.
It is legitimate and provably effective to legally limit the demand for some items, like ivory, for example, by making it contraband, interdicting trade, and punishing possession.
So what is the outrage actually about? A lot of it is about corporations asserting property rights in publishing and enforcing those supposed rights in ways that result in bad decisions, bad designs, bad products, insecure systems, and bad uses of law enforcement related to computing.
The solution isn't to "make all numbers legal" because that's not the question. The solution is to address the problems in the real world, where they make sense. Limit copyright terms. Limit laws to publisher-scale theft for profit. And that boils down to nerfing corporate money in politics.
by Twisell on 4/27/18, 9:57 AM
Ultimately this is totally nonsensical because you'd have to ban an infinite number of number because some clever boy around will definitively distribute the number preceding the illegal one and some unrelated folk can point out that you just have to +1 to get the illegal one. Basically none of the two would have done anything illegal until a ruling. rince, repeat. This is utter non-sense.
by qz3 on 4/27/18, 10:17 AM
I always felt that that "illegal numbers" is a misunderstanding of data.
There are no illegal numbers. But if you provide context, they can become illegal data. Let's take child pornography for an example, because that's universally accepted as illegal. I could come up with a formula which translates a huge number into a bitmap. I could post the number (i.e. the input for the formula) online, because it is absolutely meaningless to anyone else. But when I publish my formula, it is no longer a number. It's data which can be interpreted as something meaningful, an image.
Everything is just a number without context.
by GyYZTfWBfQw on 4/27/18, 1:07 PM
Hahahahaha. Related:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number> An illegal number is a number that represents information which is illegal to possess, utter, propagate, or otherwise transmit in some legal jurisdiction. Any piece of digital information is representable as a number; consequently, if communicating a specific set of information is illegal in some way, then the number may be illegal as well.
by roystonvassey on 4/27/18, 10:07 AM
This was an illuminating read. I was not at all aware that there are certain numbers(!) that are illegal. Thanks for sharing
by IshKebab on 4/27/18, 11:48 AM
This was clearly not written by a lawyer. I am also not a lawyer but it's pretty clear that merely distributing this prime number is not illegal. Distributing it with the intent to use it to use it as DeCSS may be though. And it would be pretty hard to convince a judge that you didn't intent to use it as DeCSS.
by sbhn on 4/27/18, 12:48 PM
It’s illegal because it’s someones job to enforce it, they probably don’t get paid much, and they have many bills to pay. And every now and then they can impress chicks by saying they manage national security. And the department who monitors us for usage of this number using all the latest expensive tech and expertise, can charge it to the tax payer. Just imagine if the number got into the hands of the enemy. ka, ching, that will be another billion dollars for my top secret department thanks very much.
by LinuxBender on 4/27/18, 8:59 PM
Surely there must be a shorter number or string that I can put in my personal information that would be illegal to copy or store. I am ok with being in trouble for having the data, as long as everyone else with the data is in trouble as well.
by kazinator on 4/27/18, 6:18 PM
So if I surreptitiously install a camera in your house and take pictures or video, then tweak the files so that their binary images denote prime numbers, all is cool; I'm just doing math, not invading your privacy.
by smolsky on 4/27/18, 5:12 PM
So, is this the right thread to mention the honorable First Prime of Apophis? He did a few illegal things...
by ByThyGrace on 4/27/18, 11:39 AM
Is it of any particular relevance that such a number is a prime?
by bambax on 4/27/18, 9:40 AM
This could be used to circumvent other (all?) limitations of speech. Just say "look up the nth prime and unzip it" instead of what you can't say...
There should be a whole industry about it.
by mcs_ on 4/27/18, 12:28 PM
I remember the news about the example used in the post. This is a proof of a society where 50% loves math and the rest makes money with who loves math.