from Hacker News

Child's play

by OpenDrapery on 4/18/18, 4:54 PM with 60 comments

• by __jal on 4/18/18, 5:54 PM

  I don't know that it is worse for devs than other workers. Have any of you seen the incredibly demeaning chanting/cheering fake-excitement bullshit that service workers have to put up with[1]? And that's for shit pay, little meaningful chance of advancement and crappy alternatives.

  Being talked down to by a bean counter in a superhero suit is empowering in comparison.

  [1] For one example, google "wallmart pep rally".

• by themodelplumber on 4/18/18, 5:53 PM

  I'm far removed from this particular scene, but doesn't anyone else get the sense that we as a world culture are starting to get a better grip on the concept of taking care of one another? Surely "infantilization" is one possible awkward misstep in such a process, but the signs mentioned don't point only toward immaturity. They also point toward fun, work-life balance, and broader availability of gentle workplace training and onboarding. Guess I could be wrong, but I'd rather have this kind of infantilization than some of the other missteps like dehumanization that we see in other work environments. People can be taught to grow up over time, but oppression is a much harder problem.

• by CPLX on 4/18/18, 6:12 PM

  I feel like we've been infantalizing an entire generation. From where I stand it seems like marketing to millenials is oddly pedantic. Meme culture, "doggos", baby talk in tweets and texts, "adulting" and the strange pedantic tone you see in ads, all feel connected. I'm not sure if it's developer thing, or just a cultural thing.

  Granted, I'm well aware the above is almost a caricature of what an old guy would say. Happens I guess.

• by stanleydrew on 4/18/18, 6:06 PM

  If you don't want to be infantilized, don't go to the conferences where you feel infantilized and don't find your jobs through contracting firms that treat you like an infant.

  You are not powerless in your situation. Stand up for yourself.

• by hoborama on 4/18/18, 6:09 PM

  > "I hate being called 'IT'"

  Oh man I hate this. An "IT" job to me just means an admin job where the subject of the admin tasks happens to be computers.

  It's worse when "IT workers" try to lump actual technically-skilled roles in with them, like it's just another task to be performed.

• by phlakaton on 4/18/18, 6:22 PM

  There's a big difference between "childlike" and "childish." I see nothing wrong with professionals that engage with media and culture that stokes our childlike sense of wonder and play, and I count us fortunate indeed to live in a time and place where such luxury exists. It never ceases to astonish me just how far geeky interests have invaded the mainstream over the years.

  A danger is the potential exclusion of people who do not participate in that specific culture, and that's something I'm more cognizant of now than I was in the past. If you should have a concern about the interweaving of tech professions and geek culture, I figure this is the most important one.

  As an adult, my relationship to comics and geek culture has definitely changed enormously from where it was when I was a child, a teenager, or a college student. Things I thought were awesome I now see as cheesy, trite, or problematic. Things I didn't appreciate earlier on have come to take on new resonance. A few things have remained constant. The opening fanfare to Star Wars, for example, when infrequently presented in a dark theater, will probably never stop sending shivers down my spine.

  The trick, then, is to approach the intersection of tech professions and geek culture as grown-ups, shrugging off the (usually blatant) attempts at manufacturing hype, and enjoying the real connection that our culture affords, without pursuing it to exclusion.

• by Mountain_Skies on 4/18/18, 6:27 PM

  Seems like this has been a common thread in tech for a long time. In Douglas Couplamd's 1995 novel 'Microserfs' one of the main characters lamented how tech employers infantile their employees. Perhaps this is a lingering effect from the early days of home computer when there was a large explosion in very young programmers and things have just carried over through the years?

• by ryanianian on 4/18/18, 6:25 PM

  The consulting shops get a hefty cut of the pay (and it's hard for them to find and place talent too), so they feel compelled to do everything they can to make things work. Not to say these things aren't patronizing/infantilizing and due to be shut-down, but until the supply/demand situation works itself out, we'll likely just replace one weird attention/talent-grab gambit for another.

  Another possibility would be for these companies to just pay more and "cut the crap". If companies paid more, there would be more talent on the market (presumably) and companies wouldn't need to put on the dog-and-pony shows to attract and retain because the economics are doing that for them.

  (And of course there are people who like the dog-and-pony shows and the 'un-corporate' vibe of these things. Power to them, but at least personally it would be nice for the "cut the crap and pay more" idea to be more common.)

• by mewse-hn on 4/18/18, 6:00 PM

  I don't think some leader acting like Michael Scott and dressing up like Captain America points to a broader problem of childishness in the industry. I'd agree with other commenters that the reference to "a female or two [to] work the booth" is more problematic, culturally.

• by thedz on 4/18/18, 6:11 PM

  Infantilization seems to be a wholly inaccurate description of the behavior; "pandering" or "courting" is much more accurate.

  TBH, if folks are having fun, and companies want to join in, I see nothing wrong with it. Devs are likely aware that the companies don't normally wear super hero costumes, and companies are probably aware that making a good first impression is only the first part of a successful relationship.

  The blog post seems to have a pretty toxic view of employers (there are a bunch of assumed "to be explored" paragraphs), and I think that view is poisoning the entire experience.

• by LandR on 4/18/18, 5:59 PM

  > If you've ever been placed in a job by a contracting firm, you know this routine. Oftentimes, the agent will meet you at the employer's office, and walk you in.

  This is a thing? Never seen this!

• by ChicagoBoy11 on 4/18/18, 6:09 PM

  Most definitely my favorite example of this ever:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5LiUrezV6k

• by codeiscodeman on 4/18/18, 6:09 PM

  Salesforce is a big time offender here.

  Trailhead Conference was absolutely pedantic not only did you have the booth babes with the cheap Chinese promo objects. They turn the Moscone center into a goddamned forest, we're talking theme park level decor complete with furries.

  I found it cult-like and infantile. Seemed like people were eating it up, not really ever going back.

  -Grumpy 30 y/o dev

• by ebbv on 4/18/18, 6:07 PM

  Isn't this just a reflection of changes our culture generally?

  When I was a kid "grown men" were only allowed to be really into sports or maybe cars. Now those barriers of what is "acceptable" for adults to be into (among other things) are broken down.

  As far as someone dressing up as a super hero for a professional conference; I'm sure if you could dig through the reports of Comdex from the 80s you'll find lots of ridiculous stuff. Most of which would be totally unacceptable today.

  Also I think the author maybe should have taken a little more care when referencing attractive females working the booth to contextualize it for people that won't give him the benefit of the doubt that he was pointing out it was absurd. Gender politics being a hot button issue right now.

• by rdiddly on 4/18/18, 6:09 PM

  Trade shows or any place where you're basically a sales prospect are all about infantilizing you as much as possible. An adult thinks long-term, is independent, makes/does things using skill, doesn't need pampering... and a host of other characteristics that are inconvenient to the sales process.

• by ravitation on 4/18/18, 5:55 PM

  If Captain America was instead dressed in a suit, would more people talk to him? In almost any context? I doubt it.

• by roywiggins on 4/18/18, 5:49 PM

  to be honest I find it hard to take writing that uses "females" as a synonym for "women" super seriously

• by tomc1985 on 4/18/18, 6:14 PM

  I do wonder why something so serious has turned into something so childish.

  But then the other day I got a haircut and while waiting to pay spied a shelf full of beard products in that cute, hipster art style, the whole display blending in perfectly with all the other hair products. It's difficult to watch something we have defined as the apex of manliness (beards) being treated with the same tone of voice as cosmetics and children's toys.

  Infantilisation is endemic at the moment, and I see it as part of a comprehensive attack on American masculinity.