from Hacker News

Harmony Link will no longer work after March 2018

by yanowitz on 11/8/17, 1:22 PM with 216 comments

• by acidburnNSA on 11/8/17, 3:02 PM

  Well if this isn't the most validating and ringing endorsement of privately-hosted, open source home automation stuff like Home Assistant [1], I don't know what is. I rigged it with $2 of infrared LED transmitters and receivers hooked to my raspberry pi and automated my TV, stereo, and air conditioner [2]. I am so glad I did this now. I think there is big business, on the order of a full-on electrician, in going around and setting up Home Assistant, some zwave stuff, some IR stuff, etc. in people's homes.

  [1] https://home-assistant.io/, very recently discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15521743

  [2] https://partofthething.com/thoughts/adding-a-ir-send-and-rec...

• by josteink on 11/8/17, 1:41 PM

  This is one reason I don't want to buy into a single IoT thing which depends on a cloud-component in order to work.

  Because those are not things you buy to own. Those are things you rent and which only keep working as long the owner is willing to keep them running.

• by atsushin on 11/8/17, 2:42 PM

  I don't understand this. So just because Logitech doesn't see it as feasible to renew a technology certificate with some company, they have to step on their consumers who've already spent their money on Logitech's product?

  That's just horrid, and a bad look (and bad consumer relations). I might he stating the obvious, but if a company is going to temporarily license a technology and then develop a product for consumer markets they would do well to continually renew their certs. To do otherwise and act how they did seeds doubt: are we simply buying into a temporarily functioning product that can cease functioning at any time at the whim of the manufacturer? If so why are we buying from them at all if the product we get isn't truly ours?

• by shalmanese on 11/8/17, 1:37 PM

  Logitech Forums censors "class action lawsuit" as a swear word!

• by edwhitesell on 11/8/17, 1:45 PM

  Seems like it's only the Logitech Link product, not all Harmony remotes.

  I've been buying used/refurbished 880 remotes online for the last few years. I still think it's the best IR remote ever made.

• by crusso on 11/8/17, 2:21 PM

  One pleasant surprise that I had with my new receiver that I hadn't realized: Modern HDMI has a control bus that will replicate commands like powering on, changing channels, changing volumes, etc. along the bus and other compliant components will play along.

  That means that with my receiver and TV, my Xfinity remote is able to control everything I need it to in my entertainment center.

  I was getting kind of bummed about the sad state of Logitech Harmony remotes as my old one was failing on me - but it turns out that it no longer matters.

• by wjnc on 11/8/17, 3:04 PM

  If in Europe: please contact your local consumers organisation or legal assistance insurance and go get your rights! We need case law to go all the way up, even on the smaller losses usually involved in consument product conflicts.

  Irregardless of small print, if it's not clear from the outset there is some part of 'lease' (of certificates) involved it seems pretty straightforward to annul your agreement of purchase once the product stops working within the period you could normally have expected it to function correctly. (Even if it is clear from the outset, the day my Philips Netflix-integrated TV With Netflix Button (R) stops showing Netflix, I'm going for it.)

  The nice thing about annulment is 100% money back. The less nice thing about anulment is that it is the store that has to pay you back, not the companing producing the product. They need to sort out liability among themselves. It's producers thinking this is acceptable behaviour that starts it. The retailer is only the middle man.

• by uptown on 11/8/17, 1:41 PM

  Logitech has a bad track record when it comes to hardware that requires ongoing services. I was a Logitech Alert customer, and had nothing but problems with both the hardware and the software. Their power line adapters would take down my entire network. And the software was buggy to the point that it was unusable.

  They've abandoned the line of products and a class action lawsuit is in process.

• by gargravarr on 11/8/17, 3:24 PM

  Brand loyalty is not rewarded. I will never buy into IoT exactly because of d*ck moves likes this. I also love how they inform the owners 'sorry we're killing your device, but you're entitled to a discount to buy a replacement from us'. Nicely absent is the reassurance they won't pull exactly this stunt again with the replacement hardware!

  Also: short paragraph: bad news, device being killed. Longer paragraph: sales pitch...

  I'll probably keep buying Logitech peripherals because they are very good quality, but the moment they make a cloud-dependent mouse, I'm out.

• by Mister_Snuggles on 11/8/17, 3:30 PM

  I found a review of the Harmony Link because I have no idea what, exactly, it is. From what I can tell it's basically an IR blaster that can be controlled via an iPad/iPhone/Android app. There are some value-add features, like access to local TV listings from the app. It sounds like there were limitations, such as not being able to actually schedule recordings from it - in fairness, the review I found was from 2011 and firmware/app updates may have changed this.

  But at it's core, the device is an IR blaster accessible over some sort of network interface. It makes no sense that this would NEED some kind of cloud service for regular operation. I can, however, see two pieces that greatly benefit from a cloud service:

  1) Initial setup. There are constantly new TVs, DVD players, cable boxes, etc with their different IR codes and quirks. The cloud service would be a good way to house this database so that it can be continuously updated without needing to push a firmware and/or app update. Each firmware/app update could include a base set of IR codes, or all codes as of the time the update was built, so that you can get base functionality without needing the service. Once you've picked a set of devices it can download the codes once and not require continuous access.

  2) TV listings. This seems to be one of the value-added features with the Harmony and there's no realistic way to bake this into the app or firmware. This needs to be a cloud service.

  Sure, maybe the TV listings will go away, I get that. I even get that they may want to discontinue the product and no longer support the app. But that's no reason to brick a bunch of devices - just say to people "This is no longer supported, the app may stop working with future OS updates, and the TV listings are going to go away."

  Ideally they'd also say "Here's our internal API guide that the hardware guys gave to the software guys, enjoy". And in a perfect world, "Here's the github link to our firmware source code that we just released under a BSD license, enjoy."

• by sstorie on 11/8/17, 1:46 PM

  Umm, is this actually happening though? Teh linked forum post is just speculation and then a bunch of people freaking out...

• by j45 on 11/8/17, 2:34 PM

  This raises a good point of why connecting gear to the cloud that doesn't need to be comes to bite ya.

  Ongoing cloud costs for eol products will kill old products quicker.. That shouldn't be connected to, or rely on the cloud.

  I own harmony hubs and will have to figure out how to leave.

  EDIT: I'll look for products that are hybrid-cloud enabled - ones that offer locally stored and run backends (perhaps an offline-first progressive web apps as control panels that can sync to a cloud API if it exists).

• by t0mbstone on 11/8/17, 9:00 PM

  "But remember that this thing came out in 2011, and since then it has been replaced by the $100 Harmony Hub. The Hub, which has the same features plus new ones focused on the smart home, is what Logitech is offering to Link owners as consolation. Anyone with a Link that’s still under warranty can upgrade to the Hub for free. If your Link is outside that one-year manufacturer’s warranty, you can get 35 percent off when buying a Hub from Logitech’s store."

  So Logitech is going to scrap an ancient piece of hardware that relies on expensive cloud infrastructure and they are willing to give people a newer version that does all of the same things (and more) for free, and people are complaining?

  If you don't want companies to do this with cloud based hardware, you will have to be prepared to pay subscription fees to cover ongoing cloud infrastructure costs. The profits from the sale of the device don't stretch to infinity. It's just basic economics.

  The other option (if you don't want cloud based infrastructure) is that you could run your own home server, but then you are going to have to worry about 24/7 connectivity, SSL, firewalls, mobile push nightmares, and all that.

• by peterwwillis on 11/8/17, 3:34 PM

  This review from 2011 shows how the Harmony Link works, and that it requires a MyHarmony.com account to set up a device, and to control it from an iPhone: https://www.engadget.com/2011/10/11/logitech-harmony-link-re...

  You don't buy a product which solely depends upon a free online hosted service and then bitch after 7 years of using it for free. Yes, it would be nice if Logitech released its server-side code so people could host the service themselves, but that would require a firmware update too as MyHarmony.com is almost certainly hard-coded in the device.

  Personally, I learned this lesson in 2002 when the Dreamcast's online services were terminated after only a year. It's too bad other people didn't seem to notice the parallels in 2011. But the suggestions of "class action lawsuit" is just stupid. You can't sue a corporation into running a free service for you that it never guaranteed in the first place.

• by frik on 11/8/17, 1:48 PM

  Logitech is one of these hardware companies that don't care anymore about their customers, the other is Microsoft. I would like to buy new Logitech mouse and keyboard, yet the discontinued the very popular (and best) Logitech MX500/518 and G400 series. The best form factor, the best sturdy robust mechanics, yet the discontinued those series. And they focus now on expensive shitty new designs that no one needs. The same dysfunctional customer experience is with Microsoft hardware, all the great mouse (Intelli series, 6000 series) and keyboard (cable based, robust, traditional key arrangement) products, all discontinued. So I had to locate new unused hardware produced by MS & Logitech many years ago from all over the world, just to have some backup hardware. And no I don't want your crappy new hardware that will make my hands hurt.

• by dantle on 11/8/17, 6:58 PM

  It's not too difficult to build your own IR blaster that is controlled by an app. I wrote an Arduino library that lets you send device-specific IR commands based on a generic LIRC configuration file. I run it on an Arduino101 and send commands to it via Bluetooth LE. Currently using it with a Windows service for climate control in my rental apartment.[1]

  I could share more source code if anybody is interested in doing the same thing.

  [1] https://github.com/dantler/infrared-remote-sketch

• by tyingq on 11/8/17, 1:51 PM

  Hopefully the FTC will take notice of this one.

• by runamok on 11/9/17, 6:22 PM

  I had a harmony link that literally never worked. I complained to Logitech and got a discount for the harmony hub. Wasn't that happy about it but overall have been pretty pleased with Logitech products and support. And I do love my hub now that it is integrated with Alexa, etc.

• by apocalyptic0n3 on 11/8/17, 3:12 PM

  Are there any alternative servers and Hub/Link firmware out there that we can run ourselves? A quick search isn't turning up anything. I'd rather not give up Harmony remotes; I use my Xbox One as my main media center and the Harmony Remotes are probably the easiest method for controlling it.

• by exelius on 11/8/17, 3:31 PM

  This is exactly why I went with SimpleControl and an IR blaster. I saw the writing on the wall with the Harmony platform, and it really is a product that a small team can maintain. SimpleControl is far from the only app in this space, but their solution fit my use case best.

• by johnhenry on 11/8/17, 3:52 PM

  I think the censoring of words and phrases like "class action lawsuit" is the big news here.

• by kevin_b_er on 11/8/17, 9:01 PM

  This will teach them the consequences of buying Logitech products when they might depend on an online component outside the owner's control. With luck, it will merely teach them the consequences of buying Logitech.

• by jdlyga on 11/8/17, 4:19 PM

  You can bet this will happen with all the early adopter smart home devices like Samsung Smart Things once Amazon's and Google's hubs become the standard.

• by emodendroket on 11/8/17, 2:49 PM

  What in the hell? I can't see how anyone thought this was a better choice than letting them go outside of a support window.

• by jaunkst on 11/8/17, 2:42 PM

  So there is no reason as to 'why' they are being bricked. They just are doing it for the money?

• by doe88 on 11/8/17, 2:13 PM

  Only related, and maybe it's because it's hard to differentiate themselves but I always felt there was only mediocre products and companies in the space of mouses and keyboards (other than kb with cherry mx switches). Moreover their softwares/drivers are usually even worse than their hw.

• by reiichiroh on 11/8/17, 4:33 PM

  they did this a year or two ago with their old security camera system and revue set-top-box.

• by fractal618 on 11/8/17, 2:32 PM

  I've always found logitech devices to feel sluggish, similar to KDE. Too much pizazz.

• by babyfrank on 11/8/17, 2:38 PM

  I've always found logitech devices to feel sluggish, similar to KDE. Too much pizazz.