from Hacker News

The Mars company has sponsored hundreds of studies to show cocoa is good

by inertial on 10/18/17, 6:56 PM with 122 comments

  • by WheelsAtLarge on 10/18/17, 9:10 PM

    I've decided that any study presented by the media is the result of hype/marketing by a company with a bias. Year after year I've seen a constant flow of "health news" that eventually turns out to be marginally true or outright false. Here's another one. No, chocolate is not health food. I suspect coffee is the next one to fall.

    Most reporters aren't knowledgeable enough to distinguish between hype and true breakthroughs. Because of this, they have to go to experts to determine whether the news is valid or not- if they do it at all. Unfortunately, they then get pointed to experts by the same companies that have a vested interest. Additionally, given the news cycle deadlines, its impossible to do the story justice.

    On a related idea, 10-15 years ago, the news media was full of stories reporting on how doctors were underprescribing pain medicines. The big point was that when people needed them narcotics were safe and not addictive. Now, 15 years later see the results. We now have thousands of people addicted and many of the dying. The tragedy is that the narcotic manufacturers were behind those stories. They did it to sell more pills.

    The reality is that we need to understand that we can't take these stories as advice but as, what they are, entertainment and as something to research if we have a real interest.

  • by JosephLark on 10/18/17, 7:24 PM

    > “Dark chocolate probably has some beneficial properties to it,” said Salt Sugar Fat author Michael Moss, “but generally you have to eat so much of it to get any benefit that it’s kind of daunting, or something else in the product counteracts the benefits. In the case of chocolate, it’s probably going to be sugar.”

    Interestingly, the chart just below this quotation shows that it takes ~70 calories of straight cocoa powder to get a "heart healthy" dose of flavanols. With dark chocolate, which has less sugar as the cocoa percentage goes up, they don't distinguish the type but you need 750 calories. That's quite a bit.

    70% cocoa dark chocolate is somewhat (not entirely) palatable to most people, but getting up to 85% becomes a distinguished taste even for dark chocolate lovers.

    Jives with my first thoughts after reading the submitted headline: that even if they could show cocoa was good for you, there is no way that translates into the standard Mars chocolate bars. I can totally see how it benefits Mars though - I've seen people give way more twisted justifications for eating junk food than "cocoa is good for you" as an excuse when eating a chocolate bar.

  • by BFatts on 10/18/17, 7:43 PM

    Someone has to do the research and "Big" whatever seems to be the ones with the money to do so. So, what should we expect from them? They are going to look for research that is compelling to their business model, but as long as it's not wholly misleading, why is it bad? All research should be taken with a grain of salt.

    I also have another question: Everyone in media is always looking for that story to break about "Big Business" doing something. Big Pharma, Big Chocolate, Big Auto... but what's the alternative? I doubt that mom and pop have the cash to do research. And I sure as hell won't trust any mom and pop research about pharmacology.

  • by jesperlang on 10/18/17, 7:54 PM

    some random thoughts:

    these companies benefit from _vague_ terms like "chocolate" and exploit customer's pre-conceived notion of what these terms actually mean.

    Of course no scientific study is going to find that Mars/snickers bars are good for you. The trick is to make sure the good result from cocoa bean studies gets linked to your Mars/snickers/product. So the process might look like this..

    1. A compound in raw cocoa bean is found to help blood levels

    2. Cocoa powder is made from cocoa beans, therefor cocoa powder is healthy

    3. Chocolate with high cocoa powder content should also be healthy

    4. "Chocolate" is healthy

    5. Mars/snickers is chocolate right? Therefor these products are also healthy.

    Posts on health blogs, marketing campaigns, etc. water down the results from (1) and draw their own conclusions, and there you go. People go out and by all kinds of chocolate products.

    Similar stuff happen with things like green tea (super healthy, but your sugar drenched matcha latte is not), fruits and vegetables in general. A "productized" version of these raw foods is easier to control and cheaper than the real deal. That's the sad reality I guess.

    edit: Key take... it's not that sponsored studies are necessarily misleading or "fake". It's the purpose of exploiting the key results of the study by somehow linking them with your product in a positive way!

  • by colordrops on 10/18/17, 7:44 PM

    I noticed a while ago how every three months or so a new big study would be at the top of google news about how great coffee is for you. I decided one time to dig into the sources and of course the study was funded by a coffee industry consortium.
  • by scrapcode on 10/18/17, 7:22 PM

    I recently pondered the possibility that this is happening in the vegetable industry right now. There are seemingly endless documentaries on Netflix at the moment promoting better health through vegetables (What the Health, Forks vs. Knives, etc). They have some compelling evidence towards their claims, but also towards possible corruptions within foundations such as the AHA and the Beef, Pork and poultry industries.

    Sure, it sounds like something a conspiracist would think up, but it'd just be the same tactics that these groups claim the meat industry et. al. have done to us for years, right?

  • by Dirlewanger on 10/18/17, 7:21 PM

    >It may be that chocolate eaters are wealthier or have other characteristics, aside from their chocolate-eating habit, that protect them from disease.

    May be the main key to take away from this. Correlation != causation etc. etc.

    Cant deny though: biting into a square of 90% cacao dark chocolate(make sure it has more fiber than sugar) is an exquisitely divine experience.

  • by ourmandave on 10/19/17, 12:55 AM

    If Big Chocolate wants to spend money to help me rationalize my 2nd (or 3rd) Twix, who am I to get in their way?

    (De Nile is not just a chocolate river in Egypt.)

  • by sna1l on 10/18/17, 7:11 PM

    This is a very common move by food companies right? Curious as to what can be done to stop it?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-in...

  • by bllguo on 10/18/17, 7:31 PM

    Would be less of an issue if society valued research properly, and enabled scientists to refuse corporate funds
  • by duncan_bayne on 10/19/17, 2:17 AM

    http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

    " Why do the media keep running stories saying suits are back? Because PR firms tell them to. One of the most surprising things I discovered during my brief business career was the existence of the PR industry, lurking like a huge, quiet submarine beneath the news. Of the stories you read in traditional media that aren't about politics, crimes, or disasters, more than half probably come from PR firms."

  • by maxxxxx on 10/18/17, 7:26 PM

    It seems most nutritional advice is somehow skewed by commercial interests. The fat vs sugar discussion was influenced by industry and the sugar industry just had better lobbyists.
  • by air7 on 10/18/17, 7:41 PM

    > "... New York University nutrition researcher Marion Nestle (no relation to the chocolate maker)"

    I know this is off topic, but what do you make of the fact that the researcher's name is Nestle? Is it a total coincidence?

    Turns out the commonly repeated idea that "Denis's are more likely to become Dentists" (i.e nominative determinism) was proven false [1]. Yet, it seems there are only about 500 people named Nestle in the whole US... [2]

    It's of course just one data point, but it's still curious.

    [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemmanuelgobry/2014/01/09/... [2] http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Map/Nestle

  • by gnicholas on 10/18/17, 7:35 PM

    Revelations like this are why I'm skeptical about the current science on eggs. The existence of a huge, well-funded egg lobby makes me wonder whether we'll find out in 20 years that dietary cholesterol is actually bad for you after all.
  • by jv22222 on 10/18/17, 10:22 PM

    There's a story (urban legend?) in Ireland that the Mars company forced a pub to changed it's name from "Mahr's Bar" to another name.

    I've always wondered if that was true, or even possible.

  • by rpazyaquian on 10/18/17, 7:16 PM

    I was eating a chocolate bar recently and I had this exact thought. Don't trust articles that say "X is good for you" when X is a commonly advertised commodity. Which is most things.
  • by DoodleBuggy on 10/19/17, 2:21 AM

    > [Fill in the blank company] has sponsored hundreds of studies to show [fill in the blank] is [good/bad]

    Now it's applicable to nearly everything

  • by guelo on 10/19/17, 12:15 AM

    Besides the sugar my main concern with chocolate is that a lot of it is contaminated with toxic levels of cadmium & lead.
  • by lawpoop on 10/19/17, 1:55 AM

    OP means cacao
  • by norswap on 10/18/17, 7:19 PM

    > Cadbury Jr.’s newest confection loaded just about every buzzy health trend into a fresh green-and-white package: vegan, ethically sourced, organic dark chocolate and creamy, superfood avocado.

    Hardly incompatible with it being candy. Avocado is super fat, chocolate is super fat. What did you expect? Also fat and even "candy" are not synonymous with unhealthy.

    Sidebar: my first thought upon seeing the title: there isn't even that much chocolate in a Mars bar.