by hobaak on 9/25/17, 6:27 PM with 164 comments
by shanev on 9/26/17, 12:48 AM
1/ If the primary purpose of school was education, the Internet should obsolete it. But school is mainly about credentialing.
2/ Schools survive anti-educational behavior (i.e. groupthink) due to symbiosis between institutions that issue and accept credentials.
3/ Employers looking past traditional credentials can arbitrage the gap. @ycombinator made $Bs doing this for young founders.
4/ The more meritocratic an industry, the faster it moves away from false credentialing. I.e., the MBA and tech startups.
5/ A generation of auto-didacts, educated by the Internet & leveraged by technology, will eventually starve the industrial-education system.
6/ Until then, only the most desperate and talented students will make the leap.
7/ Even today, what to study and how to study it are more important than where to study it and for how long.
8/ The best teachers are on the Internet. The best books are on the Internet. The best peers are on the Internet.
9/ The tools for learning are abundant. It’s the desire to learn that’s scarce.
10/ Educational credentials are badges that admit one to the elite class. Expect elites to struggle mightily to justify the current system.
11/ Eventually, the tide of the Internet and rational, self-interested employers will create and accept efficient credentialing...
12/ ...and wash away our obsolete industrial-education system.
by graniter on 9/25/17, 9:22 PM
I think we need to separate instruction, student work, and assessment. Students should be able to receive instruction in multiple ways (1on1, group, watch videos), do their work with something like TAs, and be assessed at their own pace.
Japan is starting to see to super-star teachers that parent pay for. Why do we always need a teacher to provide direct instruction in the classroom? Why can't we reward the best instructors, like Kahn, by having kids be instructed that way? The reason is because instruction, work, and assessment are not separated now.
I wish there were more experimentation in education, but since everything is a big ball of wax paid for with property taxes, there's a lot of reluctance for anyone to experiment with their kid, and since it's all or nothing, there just are minor experiments in the classroom
We need tech to find a way to scale the classroom and deliver it cheaply to students, and I think we need a separation of concerns in order for that to happen.
by grendelt on 9/25/17, 8:33 PM
by jpereira on 9/25/17, 8:45 PM
I think biggest area of disruption in education would be in building fundamentally new architectures for educational systems, based on networks and social communities instead of funnels and institutions. The latter have a pretty huge list of undesirable properties and negative externalities, especially in how they limit diverse experiences and learning.
An eye-opening read on this front for me has been Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich [0]. It's insane how much of what he wrote 40 years ago still holds true.
[0] http://www.davidtinapple.com/illich/1970_deschooling.html
by tonydiv on 9/25/17, 6:47 PM
BlockSchool is an online coding school for kids ages 6 to 13. We hire teachers from top colleges and companies like Stanford and Facebook, and connect them with students who don't have easy access to high-quality instruction.
Our classes are conducted via video chat in a fun 3D block-based world where everything can be controlled by writing Puzzle code (our visual programming language), JavaScript, and Python. It's collaborative, social, and kids love the creative freedom we give them.
We are focused on 1:1 and 1:2 instruction now which isn't 'scalable' but later on, we plan on offering a help service for kids only when they get stuck or need a new concept explained. This will lower the cost for students substantially. We hope to follow in the footsteps of VIPkid on this front.
We are based in Seoul/SF, so we have a number of students in China, Japan, and Korea already, but a majority of our customers are in the US.
If anyone is interested in offering feedback, here is our website: https://block.school
We'll be applying to YC too! Hopefully our project is relevant to what they're looking for. We're also growing quite fast :)
by Mz on 9/25/17, 9:39 PM
Homeschooling related startups
Big companies can be a unique resource for small, independent operations. In k-12 education, some of the smallest and most independent are homeschooling families.
They need to comply with state laws. They sometimes need to accommodate 2xe students. They need to prove their children actually received an education.
There are no doubt other areas where they could use help. This is often done currently via free websites, free email lists, etc. There is a homeschoolers legal aid group or something. I was a member when I was homeschooling. So, there are some supports already, but it tends to be pretty sparse and a lot is local, homegrown.
by kodable on 9/25/17, 8:08 PM
We went through IK12 (now a part of YC, same people) and it was the single best decision we ever made for Kodable. Education companies have some pretty unique problems, and it is almost guaranteed that the partners will have seen it before, know how to handle it, or at least be able to connect you with someone that has. At this point I think that YC/IK12 companies have a presence in pretty much every school in the USA and most countries around the world, so the network of edtech startups you get access to is just incredible.
Edtech startups can be really hard, but this is one of the few things you can do that will actually make it just a little bit easier. If you have any questions please feel free to reach out - Jon at Kodable dot com
by snomad on 9/25/17, 7:23 PM
by ams6110 on 9/25/17, 10:15 PM
I disagree. I already pay taxes, book fees, technology fees, extracurricular fees to my school district. I would not pay another cent for anything I didn't have to pay.
A big problem in K-12 education today is actually over-involvement of parents. Helicoptering, or whatever you want to call it. Sure a teacher wants parent support -- but from home. They do not want to, do not have time for, and should not be dealing with 20 parent interactions a day, technology-assisted or not.
by pier25 on 9/26/17, 1:30 AM
It's not in the US though so YMMV.
by ChicagoDave on 9/26/17, 4:00 AM
Textfyre Final Presentation, 2012 http://plover.net/~dave/textfyre/Textfyre%20Investor%20Prese... (The slide with the team has been removed...no need to share that info)
We were in talks for a couple of months with Gates Foundation, but our timing was off. They had just pivoted away from helping startups to giving millions of dollars to big education publishers like Pearson.
I gave up after realizing that I'd vastly under-estimated the networking (and cash) requirements in even proving the plan. Education is a really hard business to crack and we were targeting textbooks.
Fast-forward a couple of years, maybe 2014-15, and I'm listening to a gal from Pearson being interviewed on NPR. She's essentially spouting many of Textfyre's ideas (embedded testing, interactive content, variable reading levels).
I laughed and cried at the same time.
The funny part is, not a single person ever told me the plan was bad. They just told me the education business sucks and it would cost a lot of money. But bar-none, everyone _loved_ the plan. And this goes through to today. I chat about this plan once in awhile with someone that's peripherally interested in ed-tech and they all say, "Why aren't you still working on THAT!"
I'd love to. Write me a check.
by jacquesm on 9/25/17, 10:43 PM
I'm sure that will play well with parents that are already straining under the load. This sort of thing is so rife with bias that it is very hard to step away from your privileged position for the 30 seconds that it takes to vet the idea that you have to wonder why this cycle repeats over and over again.
Any kind of parental contribution to the school system outside of taxes will end up as a way to differentiate between the haves and the have-nots and at best will lead to children from disadvantaged environments not being able to take part in fun stuff, at worst it will disadvantage them even further.
This kind of thinking seems to be present in more than one YC project, the misguided attempt at their version of 'basic income' which fails to take even the most basic precautions against doing damage rather than improving things is another.
by baron816 on 9/25/17, 10:43 PM
by alphonsegaston on 9/25/17, 9:50 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/betsy-devos-michigan-s...
Tech lipstick on underperforming, segregated, for-profit schools isn't going to make them any prettier.
by adamsea on 9/26/17, 3:05 AM
And then of course there are various troubled or at-risk populations of students where no amount of educational technology will help because they come from broken homes and underserved communities.
This is not to denigrate the idea of Education Startups, but rather, to point out the broader scope of "education".
by BinaryIdiot on 9/25/17, 10:22 PM
The problem I ran into, which completely discouraged me at the time, was that of making money. You need a significant amount of capital to sell to a private school and a public school requires sales cycles of at least a couple of years. It just wasn't possible with me already having a family, mortgage, etc.
I would love to see the whole thing get disrupted. I even think about doing something in it from time to time. Having YC behind you would certainly be a big help. One big issue you face is that you're going to be teaching children and helping to shape their minds so you must use valid scientific research to back up your ideas less we create a generation of adults who cannot think about the world. This is the biggest hurdle, IMO, because it's so easy to just appeal to someone's bias narrative. For example "brain games" which "train" your brain basically only train it to play those games but they're still hugely popular and sometimes marketed to the same demographics.
by ontouchstart on 9/26/17, 12:48 AM
by sjg007 on 9/25/17, 7:21 PM
The other idea is work/life balance for kids in school. How do you monitor that and help them? I think kids have more energy but at the same time need downtime etc.. What does that mean in the context of education etc..?
by Kevin_S on 9/25/17, 7:42 PM
I want to create an organization that is essentially a 6 week retreat for students before they begin college. Selecting the best applicants possible, they will go through rigorous training to become their most successful selves, covering Academics, Social life, Health, and Lifestyle topics. Elements of secrecy will help it's applicant pool, I was heavily inspired by the Bohemian Club.
Long term, the alumni network itself will more than make up for the cost, in turn making the applicant pool stronger and stronger.
It's an aggressive plan, and requires years of building up from the ground. But it's my dream to make it happen.
by peterburkimsher on 9/26/17, 3:25 AM
VoiceTube is a similar startup company that scaled this up to help people learn English.
I have no idea how to turn my Chinese-learning data into a practical business. I emailed 100 Chinese teachers in universities around Taiwan, but didn't get any replies.
If someone wants to do the business and marketing, I'm happy to give you everything I've done so far.
by jerrac on 9/25/17, 9:09 PM
AFAIK, the biggest reason there are no real competitors is that Ellucian does a good job packaging the law and regulation related stuff for financial aid. Apparently that's difficult enough that no open source alternative or non-open source company has been able to do better.
I'd love to see someone fix that problem.
by gnicholas on 9/26/17, 12:36 AM
"There's lots of research on ways in which material can be presented that makes it easier for kids to learn. We would encourage companies that have relevant expertise and the ability to bring research-backed technology to market."
Or is there not an interest in something like this?
by pergadad on 9/25/17, 8:19 PM
I think for none of these there are any good solutions out there short of throwing money at the system, which few places can /want to do. For anything to find actual uptake in education it needs to be timely, cost-effective, easy to train /use, respect very specific laws, and tested /proven in a real setting.
There are huge concerns about issues such as vendor lock-in. And looking at some of the proposals listed, there are things that seem crazy /near-evil, eg the suggestion to give a system free to schools but let parents pay.
This seems like a rather negative post, but I just mean to give a bit of perspective. Education is complex, deeply personal, so emotional, immensely important, shapes and determines society and our common future. There is a massive amount of both idealism and frustration on the part of the people involved (especially teachers) . Most have experienced a dozen broken tech promises and been covered in advertising leaflets of questionable commercial providers.
All that ends with either the same pretty much evil players dominating this complex market (everyone in education hates Pearson but few can avoid using some of their products as they know how to play the system, including the funding models and rules ), or with an increased influx of highly commercial tech players (Google, Microsoft, Apple,) which don't understand/care for the aims of education and just see a massive market and an opportunity to train the next generation of users on their systems.
Maybe you'll have some ideas... :-)
by v4n4d1s on 9/25/17, 7:28 PM
by jxramos on 9/26/17, 12:18 AM
by MozillaUser on 9/26/17, 2:48 AM
by ankyth27 on 9/25/17, 7:59 PM
by baby_wipe on 9/25/17, 7:18 PM
by cosinetau on 9/25/17, 11:52 PM
by bluetwo on 9/25/17, 9:48 PM
by jfaucett on 9/25/17, 8:29 PM
Basically, number one indicator of success in school (excluding socio-economic factors) is having good teachers and very low student/teacher ratios, ideally 1-1 for most tasks (i.e traditional tutoring) and very small groups i.e. 3-5 per teacher for group work. Small groups have tons of benefits from keeping kids focused to dealing with misbehaving kids, etc.
Anyway, the idea consist in doing away with the traditional concept of a teacher at the primary school level (but eventually all levels). You can do this by hiring all your teachers on an hourly basis and leveraging college students, stay at home moms/dads, or just anyone with a GED and wanting to make a few extra bucks on the side. These teachers can work even just a couple hours a week if they want. Also, you don't have to have high standards on anything other than the teachers ability to communicate, being nice and helpful,liking to work with kids, and having a GED. The calculations I've done allow you to cut your student/teacher ratios by about a factor 3-4 and additionally allow for special tutoring of kids who need it for a couple hours a week.
Another key aspect of the model is that now kids are in smaller groups and can be paired with others who work roughly at their own pace, also I want to note that age no longer plays a role in determining which classes a student is in.
The whole time we're doing this the teachers and students are using software that has learning algorithms designed to tailor learning materials to the particular student. That student, then has a personalized and adaptive learning pathway through the digital courses at his school. There is also no longer the idea of a particular "year of work". Students take a comprehensive exam to exit every class and a fully comprehensive end of year exam for the courses they have mastered in that years time frame. All students can move more or less freely to and from groups and take these exams whenever they want, skipping entire courses if they have already mastered the materials and can prove it by passing the exams. So its not age but ability which determines where a student is placed. You can think of a school year (or a entire primary through high school curricula) as a graph where the classes are nodes and to go from one class to the next all a student needs to do is pass a particular exam.
The only real pedagogical emphasis is that we try to teach students how to teach themselves and provide them the digital materials to do so. Also my dream would be to be able to offer this to kids from the poorest neighborhoods first, because they're the ones who would benefit the most from a small group learning environment and 1-1 tutorship.
Anyway, that's the idea. If anyone is interested in helping out, please ping me up (email in bio). Right now the software is slow going since its just been me and my brother working on this in our spare time. Thanks for the feedback.