by nmc on 9/20/17, 10:32 AM with 116 comments
by diggan on 9/20/17, 11:16 AM
Before the weekend, the Spanish Judicial System gave a warning to anyone who helps spreading material about the referendum, or is involved in any way. Catalans are still pushing forward to hold the vote on the 1st of October. This lead to this morning's arrests of mayors around Catalunya. And now, Spanish Judicial System decided that the organization behind the .cat TLD is somehow involved in the referendum as well.
Previously on "Catalunya VS Spain" also includes Spanish Judicial System taking down informational websites about the referendum, such as http://referendum.pirata.cat (which is a mirror of the one which existed on http://referendum.cat but is now shut down)
by robin_reala on 9/20/17, 11:07 AM
Also, see the (potentially biased) en.Wikipedia article on the referendum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_referendu...
by amval on 9/20/17, 12:18 PM
The reality, however, it's different:
- Catalonia is a rich, privileged region of Spain, which has benefited enormously of a huge investment in infraestructure and industry in the last decades.
- The indepentist movement was fueled around outright xenophobia, accusing the central government of "stealing" Catalonians, attacking poorer regions of Spain (which are full of lazy, untrustworthy people).
- In the last years, the Catalonian government has shaped their citizen perception of history, promoting nonsense like "Catalonia is a colony of Spain". An easy to disprove, but widely repeated argument.
- The Catalonian government even forbade the use of Spanish to their civil servants. Which was fined by the EU.
For a long time, state politic parties and catalonian parties, profited from this absurd "us against them" scenario. Now it's really out of hand, and the central government has a lot of blame in this.
But I really failed to see why someone should have any sympathy for Catalonian independentism. It's certainly not based on any historical reality, their political and economic consequences are unpredictable (but I doubt that benefitial for anyone other than catalonian politicians) and it's illegal under any possible frame.
I guess you could justify it if you believe in this abstract right to self-determination. I personally would have held a referendum long ago. I still think it's both stupid and immoral (it's usually the rich regions that want independence, with similar arguments).
by victornomad on 9/20/17, 12:53 PM
I support their right to decide but at the same time I feel that the way this has been managed by both Catalan and Spanish governments is not going to have a good outcome :(
On the other side I always had the feeling that this is just politicians willing to use this situation for their own benefit and raise votes. Instead of creating a peaceful dialogue (both sides) they just prefer to keep with the same story over and over creating more and more hate between different parts of the country...
It comes to my mind a book by Chomsky (Media Control) that suggest how US has created always an enemy to have the country united and the support of the people.
Borders..... such a colonial western invention and all the problems they have created.....
by notspanishflu on 9/20/17, 12:01 PM
The government of Catalonia can hold a referendum following the Law. The problem here is that the government of Catalonia is not following even their own regional laws approved by them, not to mention the Spanish Constitution.
The secessionists have even forbidden the opposition to participate in the debates in the Parliament of Catalonia.
Remember also that Catalonia has never been a nation.
by hectorlorenzo on 9/20/17, 12:28 PM
Of course, you have to consider that after almost 40 years of a fascist dictatorship, anything that resembled a democratic constitution was good news, so 90% of Catalans voted in favor of these Constitution.
This is the main reason why, according to the current Constitution, the current referendum is illegal.
by gasull on 9/20/17, 12:48 PM
Since all banks today work with fractional reserve banking, banks in Catalonia depend on the European Central Bank to keep their ATMs running. If Catalonia became an independent country and the ECB decided to cut Catalonia out the Eurozone, the corralito scenes in Catalonia will resemble those we have seen before in Cyprus and Greece.
by darthdev on 9/20/17, 12:37 PM
by robtaylor on 9/20/17, 11:26 AM
(I have no affiliation or connection)
by rurban on 9/20/17, 11:22 AM