from Hacker News

iPhone X

by interconnector on 9/12/17, 7:16 PM with 1746 comments

  • by zaroth on 9/12/17, 11:11 PM

    They make is so easy to login to the phone -- I'm still waiting for the ability to add multiple users. When I hand my phone to my daughter she should see her apps, my son, his. And when I hand my phone to my wife, she should unlock it and see.... her phone. If 256GB local storage and 11ac WiFi isn't enough storage and bandwidth to make this easy, I would be OK if it only kept the last GB of the camera roll.

    Of course this sync should happen directly between our devices when they are on the same network. No need to go through the cloud.

    By default if her phone rings it should only alert on her primary device. Unless she authenticates to my device at which point everything is there waiting. If her phone was ringing and she picks up my device and authenticates it should answer the call.

    Ideally this is all smooth enough that we have matching devices and don't care which one either of us walks out of the house with.

    The end game is that when networks are fast enough, the cloud mature enough, and homomorphic encryption performant, we get to the point where the phone basically lives in the cloud and anyone can pick up any iDevice, authenticate, and be looking at effectively their own device.

  • by leeoniya on 9/12/17, 8:29 PM

    > Your face is now your password

    no, it isnt. and neither are your fingerprints. none of this publicly available data is a password.

    a password is something i can change if it gets compromised. a password is secure from others.

    biometric data is a username/id.

    why do companies insist on getting this shit backwards?

  • by chris_7 on 9/12/17, 6:26 PM

    I unlock my phone in my pocket with Touch ID all the time - ready to go and on the home screen by the time I've flipped it around in my hand. Feels like a straight downgrade in usability.

    also, some engineer at apple had to continuously grow a beard to test this

  • by nunez on 9/12/17, 7:37 PM

    These keynotes were magical before leakers leaked everything. I'm wondering if Apple should scrap these and aim for smaller, unplanned releases instead.

    As far as this phone goes, I am really excited to see how it stacks up to the Galaxy S8. Face ID is incredibly enticing, but Samsung Pay is much more universal. The only thing that is making me want to retreat back to an iPhone is its inferior Bluetooth audio quality.

  • by AaronFriel on 9/12/17, 6:58 PM

    I wonder if the tech team involved with Face ID factored the birthday paradox into their security factor. They touted a "1 in 1,000,000" chance that someone else's face unlocks one's iPhone X.

    Well, with the birthday paradox, let's say there were, say, exactly 1179 people in the Steve Jobs Auditorium and they all had iPhone Xs. That's 694,431 unique pairs of people, and there would be roughly a 50% chance of two of the attendees faces unlocking the same phone.

    That's not helpful for brute forcing a single phone, but it is mildly disconcerting that a security factor of only 1 in 1,000,000 is considered a "wow" factor.

    Edit: Some people are asking, "But isn't that equivalent to a six digit pin?" Yes, of course. I am just opining on the marketing spiel for security not being nearly as impressive as it sounds. More boring features like the secure enclave play a much larger role in the security of the iPhone than the "1 in X" chance of a successful unlock.

  • by capkutay on 9/12/17, 6:24 PM

    I have a suspicion that removing the home button and relying on swipe-interactions might be a step back in usability for the non-tech savvy people who have made up a large share of iPhone users.

  • by mortenjorck on 9/12/17, 7:48 PM

    I can understand the compromise of the "notch" for the sensor bar in portrait-oriented UIs. Some thoughtful juggling of the status bar, some added interaction, and you're all set. A reasonable trade-off.

    What I cannot understand at all is the compromise in landscape mode, for games and video. Rather than just black out the uneven area and limit the drawable area to the largest unbroken rectangle, everything Apple shows appears partially obscured by the notch. The AR game example literally has the notch starting to eat into the UI. In my book, this leaps from "acceptable trade-off" to "bizarre sacrifice." It's like living with a cracked corner of the screen, right out of the box.

  • by pritambarhate on 9/12/17, 7:31 PM

    Do you think phones are a "done" thing? I mean what we are seeing these days is more of an evolution than revolution. With iPhone X I think we know what the phone industry will move towards for next 4 years.

    All these features are cool and somewhat exciting but nothing groundbreaking that will change computing/communications forever.

    VR was supposed to be the game changer but it appears that it will also take around 4-5 years at least to be mainstream.

    What do you think will bring the next revolution in personal computing and communications?

  • by goberoi on 9/12/17, 7:07 PM

    Can the new camera technology be used to map spaces as big as rooms?

    If so, this could be game changing for allowing the creation of VR spaces quickly and inexpensively. E.g., play a VR game in your real house after mapping it with your iPhone X. Or better, do a detailed remodel in VR before doing it in real life.

    A lot of commercial uses of VR technology (e.g., construction, industrial design, etc.) can benefit from inexpensive, and accurate mapping. Today, the alternative is to get an architect to build a model of your house, to build a crude version yourself, have a Hololens/Tango phone/or other nascent and expensive technology.

    If not, what truly is the game changing aspect of these cameras + specialized compute for machine learning/neural nets? They have to have thought through dozens of use cases beyond photos, animated emojis, and other trivial entertainment... right?

  • by drakenot on 9/12/17, 6:44 PM

    I can't believe that video plays "under" the notch. I would have bet money that they would have blacked out the status bar during video playback.

  • by balls187 on 9/12/17, 7:00 PM

    $1000 for higher fidelity snapchat features.

    I love my iphone camera, and if the upgrade program isn't too terrible, I will get the iPhoneX, but call me underwhelmed.

    The implementation of faceID seems really poorly thought out. I can unlock my phone, and navigate it before focusing my attention on it. I feel like "attention to unlock" is going to cause an increase in distracted driver related incidents.

  • by aeturnum on 9/12/17, 6:41 PM

    Could we have a modicum of skepticism in repeating press releases?

    >Thanks to this new design, the iPhone X is sealed for water and dust resistance.

    So the iPhone 7, which does not use this design, was not water and dust resistant? I know this is a meta point, but it's annoying. Apple can say whatever they like in their releases, but it would be nice to have people familiar with the domain do a smell test on the content.

  • by ProfessorLayton on 9/12/17, 7:09 PM

    I've accepted that the headphone jack is never coming back no matter how much I'd like it to. I still can't accept that a company that is so focused on design has accepted the ever-growing camera protrusion in order to make the phone "thinner".

    My 6s has a scuffed camera ring, and rattles when used on a table, due to its inability to lay flat.

  • by einrealist on 9/12/17, 7:27 PM

    I cannot get around the missing headphone jack. My headphones cost more than this new iPhone :(

  • by gbrown_ on 9/12/17, 7:23 PM

    It seems like iPhone X would have been the perfect candidate to switch to USB-C. I had thought this would have been a long time coming given the USB-C only approach on MacBooks, yet it remains curiously absent. I really don't understand the fracture in the Apple ecosystem in regards to connectivity here.

    Can anyone enlighten me as to why Apple are still using the Lightening connector here?

  • by iClaudiusX on 9/12/17, 6:35 PM

    Probably not a good sign that FaceID failed on stage for Craig on his first try (had to use a passcode to log in) during the demo.

  • by rukittenme on 9/12/17, 6:25 PM

    They put that stupid black thing at the top of the phone...

  • by singularity2001 on 9/12/17, 7:31 PM

    "Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen." so they failed thus far

  • by IgorPartola on 9/12/17, 11:44 PM

    Ugh. So wireless charging is great. I really wanted that because having tried some Qi cases and charging gear, it is pretty magical. And the decision to use a glass back makes sense there.

    However, Apple seems to just forget that people use their damn phones in cars. Waze is my GPS because no matter how much my car's built in GPS tries, it's not going to be as good as a thing connected to the internet. And in the car I hate to use the damn charger, so yay wireless charging right? Not so fast. Your choices are limited to a big clunky clamp style holder, or a little tiny magnetic holder that usually goes over one of the vents. Guess what? Magnetic holders don't work with wireless charging. Or rather they could, but the ones I've tried (available on Amazon) were complete shit that broke almost immediately.

    There are several options to fix this problem:

    a. Car manufacturers could include some kind of standard solution to this. At the least they could make a spot to easily mount a phone and make sure it doesn't obscure the driver's view too much while still being visible. Instead they keep insisting on adding bigger and bigger screens. Sometimes they'll go as far as adding a touch screen (looking at you Tesla) for no goddamn reason. Just give me a nice place to put an aftermarket phone cradle. Or at least don't add a 22" monitor where I want to put one.

    b. Apple and/or Samsung could lead the industry in making wirelessly charging magnetic car mounts. It's not impossible to do, and magnets would actually help align the phone so charging is efficient wrt the induction coil used. Sure it has a nice glass back, but who gives a crap if I now need to add an ugly rubber case with a 2.5" steel washer to it just to get it mounted?

    I get that Apple thinks CarPlay is their long term solution to this. But I think universal adoption by car manufacturers on that one is probably at least 5 years away. And even so, lifetime of older cars is like what 15-20 years?

    This is why we can't have nice things.

  • by bsenftner on 9/13/17, 5:25 AM

    Couple of issues here, speaking as a facial recognition developer, of arguably one of the leaders in the industry.

    1) The use of 3D data is a step in the right direction, but to use it reliably it has to constantly re-calibrate to the individual(s) it is supposed to pass. This is very important and a constant issue if using a person's 3D depth data as their face for authentication. My employer pioneered the use of 3D data for facial recognition, via 3D reconstruction, before scanning and depth cameras were feasible. In doing so, we became aware of the significant variation an individual's 3D facial form undergoes during any time period: different times of the day, yes, significant 3D facial form transformation; different days, definitely. Females significantly more, as they experience 3D form transformations simply from their menstrual cycle. Men who drink, less so than women, also gain significant facial form transformations on a weekly basis. Over the course of a season, everyone undergoes significant 3D form transitions, to the degree authentication is not reliable unless constant re-calibration occurs. Which introduces issues of system failure after indeterminate lapses of use, or sudden physical transformation - such as an accident, where your face is swollen. A person could be attacked, and their face altered to the degree their phone no longer authenticates. A person could fast for 2 days, not use their phone, and it will no longer pass.

    2) They should be using multiple biometrics for authentication. The facial image in combination with the depth information, if treated separately with completely separate verification trained algorithms, only counts as two biometrics. Reliable authentication of a device attached to one's credit cards and finances requires a MINIMUM of 3 biometrics. They could solve that with the addition of Touch-ID or the addition of a pass code in addition to the face image and the face 3D depth data. But that borders on 'inconvenience', and I feel consumer pleasing stupidity. Sometimes being safe should require an extra step, simply so the consumer has the assurance their data is safe. It's like hearing the click as the lock on your door seals. Too automatic, and it's insecure because one never knows if it is active.

    However, ignoring the face as authentication, the iPhone just became a very slick 3D avatar creator.

  • by bspn on 9/12/17, 6:26 PM

    Face ID. I'd swear this was satire if I wasn't watching it with my own eyes.

  • by ctdonath on 9/12/17, 7:25 PM

    Projector-based 3D face recognition. Nifty. Shines an IR dot pattern onto the face, recognizes with that, works in the dark. Seems on continuously, wonder how much power draw.

  • by alkonaut on 9/12/17, 7:17 PM

    Can't help wondering what the next model will be called given what a dead end "X" is.

    After OS X they never went to 11. They codenamed the 10.N versions but it doesn't seem likely with a "iPhone X 10.2 mushroom badger"-type name.

    Best guess: they'll just call it the iPhone next year. Like some other products they'll just use the model year to distinguish. Guessing we won't even see the "iPhone XS", it'll just be "iPhone (2018)".

  • by the_duke on 9/12/17, 6:55 PM

    Is it just me or does the big fat shiny frame on the iPhone 10 completely destroy it's aesthetic appeal and kills the 'infinity' effect?

    It looks really clunky to me.

  • by pilom on 9/12/17, 8:31 PM

    I'm bothered by the move to TouchID and now FaceID from a "the government can make you unlock your phone" standpoint. Legally, the precedent is that the government can force you to use "something you are" like your face or fingerprint to unlock your phone. Currently there is at least some ambiguity to the precedents that say they can't require you to unlock your phone with "something you know" like a pin or password because of that could be construed as self-incrimination and forbidden by the bill of rights.

    If you're worried about law enforcement requiring you to unlock your phone DO NOT USE TOUCHID OR FACEID.

  • by asafira on 9/13/17, 4:08 AM

    One of the most distinguishing features of the phone is the vertical orientation of the backside cameras --- anyone else realize this is likely because their forward facing sensor bar is likely in the way if the backside cameras were horizontal?

    A few other quick notes:

    1) Those short x-ray shots of the iPhone camera assembly look impressive. I wonder how many components and extremely-fine-scale positioning have to go into the lens system (especially since they have to move! =) )

    2) The lack of TouchID seems like a hardware regression to me, but I'd feel more or less confident in that based on the actual experience of FaceID vs TouchID. On a separate note: the engineers working on that must be paid boatloads given how valuable they must be to the company, combining both machine learning + security knowledge. (Not easy to find people like that.)

    3) The screen is nice. I don't understand why people are complaining about the screen extending "behind" the front-facing sensorbar, to be honest --- seems like a tiny, fixable detail in the scheme of things

    4) I really think people will buy this phone for the camera, and not for many of the other features that were advertised. (not AR, not awesome graphics, not amazing aluminum and glass, etc.)

    5) Anyone know what usage has been like for Force Touch? I always was under the impression that it wasn't that popular, but kudos to Apple for not dropping it and still believing in it.

  • by thegayngler on 9/12/17, 7:25 PM

    I wasn't really excited about AI and ML until I saw this iPhone X and the stuff they were doing with the Animojis and the Facial Recognition Tech. Whew! I may have to study AI/ML

  • by tcfunk on 9/12/17, 7:37 PM

    Suddenly a 128gb iPhone 6s for $549 sounds like a heck of a deal...

  • by tabeth on 9/12/17, 6:36 PM

    I wonder how well Face ID works with dark skinned people. Dead serious. Historically facial recognition has had a tough time with dark skinned folks. The inclusion of an IR camera should mitigate, if not solve this, but I'm curious to the accuracy in practice.

  • by dvfjsdhgfv on 9/12/17, 6:47 PM

    All this time I'm wondering... Why should I buy this phone? Honestly, there's noting convincing in it.

  • by adamb_ on 9/12/17, 6:36 PM

    Initial demo for Face ID failed -- Obviously less than ideal when trying to convince your audience that "it just works".

  • by parthdesai on 9/12/17, 7:26 PM

    $1320 CAD + tax for a phone. MacBook Air is cheaper than this.

    edit: meant CAD.

  • by sengork on 9/13/17, 12:22 AM

    I find it fascinating how hard Apple make it to find the battery capacity (mAh or Wh) for iPhones.

    My understanding is that they do not want people to make a direct mAh capacity comparison to competing phones on the basis that iPhone can "squeeze out" more out of the smaller battery thanks to optimisations.

  • by dangjc on 9/12/17, 7:40 PM

    Why are people comfortable carrying a $1000 piece of equipment that can be dropped or stolen in an instant in their pocket? My Nexus6p takes great pictures, runs everything smoothly, and I don't have to freak out as much if the $350 suddenly vanishes.

  • by acconrad on 9/12/17, 7:36 PM

    My god that is the longest product advertising page I have ever seen, and that includes those long form ads selling those gimmicky products.

  • by grenoire on 9/12/17, 6:28 PM

    Woah, they skipped 9 just like Windows!

  • by tarcon on 9/12/17, 7:09 PM

    Does the iPhone X Super Retina Display lack the 120hz refresh rate of the iPad Pro ProMotion Display? I hoped that 120hz would be the future because I really enjoy it and feel that animations on my iPhone 6 feel a bit jerky.

  • by marcell on 9/12/17, 6:30 PM

    FaceID seems pretty impressive, if it works as advertised, and it sounds like they've thought of a lot of edge cases.

    I can't get over the black bar at the top of iPhone X though. It looks like it has devil horns...

  • by chorsestudios on 9/12/17, 8:22 PM

    I am surprised they didn't change the included lighting <-> USB cable to USB C. Out of the box still incompatible with the MacBook Pro, and forced to use dongles/adapters.

  • by hysan on 9/12/17, 8:48 PM

    So a lot of times I show my phone to my friends when they ask about the time or if I get a quick message I want to show them on the notifications screen. With Face ID, would this trigger a wrong face recognition? If so, I can see this potentially locking me out as I rarely use my phone when I'm out with groups of people. Touch ID worked a lot better in terms of fine grain control, so this move to Face ID makes me wonder how many different edge cases were considered in this design decision.

  • by TekMol on 9/12/17, 6:43 PM

    That AI chip that runs 600 billion instructions per second - is that just for FaceID or can it be programmed?

  • by KZeillmann on 9/12/17, 7:28 PM

    How does the "Home" gesture work with games that require gestures? If someone has a game that requires flicking items upward from the bottom of the screen, will that now be impossible? I don't have an iPhone, but I'm assuming that games like Flippy Knife and Flip Master, currently #1 and #2 on the Play store, could run into issues.

  • by Accacin on 9/12/17, 7:05 PM

    So, I guess I'm the only one who thinks the notch looks great? Gives it a bit of character! I won't be buying one though, I'm hoping my iPhone 7 lasts at least another 2 or 3 years.

  • by wiz21c on 9/12/17, 8:13 PM

    >>> Reveal your inner panda, pig, or robot.

    Ok, I stopped there. Now let's talk about the sociological impact of Apple.

  • by mholt on 9/12/17, 6:34 PM

    I approve of Face ID more than Windows Hello, but I'm not convinced that neural networks are ready for security prime-time. Have we solved adversarial attacks yet? Were any of the masks they used in training painted with adversarial patterns?

    (The tech is cool, though. Actually amazing, that it fits on a phone.)

  • by goeric on 9/12/17, 6:34 PM

    Face ID just failed in the on-stage demo. Oops :(.

  • by amrrs on 9/12/17, 7:08 PM

    Guess, With Face ID, Apple making Fbi or any govt authority's 'Hey can you open this iPhone' case much much harder.

    Like iPad replaced a log of information display in Public places like airports, Face ID could one day become our entry pass in many places.

    But in the age of Trump, what if Equifax fate to apple?

  • by pducks32 on 9/13/17, 12:13 AM

    I thought Tim and the whole team did a great job presenting. And the whole company on every team did a fantastic job making every single piece easy to use. The iPhone X seems like a step forward in phones. I’ve used a number of androids and can say that the usability just isn’t there.

  • by runesoerensen on 9/12/17, 6:42 PM

  • by protomyth on 9/12/17, 6:35 PM

    I fail to see how this Face ID will work in a North Dakota winter or on the ski slope.

    // And they had a demo failure on their new unlock and swipe up for home.

  • by boobsbr on 9/12/17, 8:05 PM

    Seems like all these features were previously available on Android phone for (quite) some time:

    - "bezel-less" display

    - wireless charging

    - no hardware buttons on the front

    - facial recognition

    - dual cameras

    Not to downplay the quality engineering of Apple, but this seems like a big "meh..." to me. A lot of hype for stuff that is commonplace.

  • by bennettfeely on 9/12/17, 6:28 PM

    How does Face ID work with identical twins?

  • by fuzzythinker on 9/12/17, 7:27 PM

    Fun fact. The iPhone 7 "Overview" link[1] on their iPhone 7 page redirects to the iPhone X. Bug? Or a bit over pushing the new product?

    [1] https://www.apple.com/iphone-7

  • by datalus on 9/12/17, 6:28 PM

  • by traviswingo on 9/12/17, 8:01 PM

    Off topic. I posted this same link right when the page was live and it got flagged. This seems to be the only iPhone X link on HN now, but was posted 20 mins after mine. What caused mine to be flagged? Not mad, just curious :)

  • by CreMindES on 9/13/17, 7:57 AM

  • by skc on 9/12/17, 7:45 PM

    I'm wondering if it's easier or harder for cops to forcefully unlock your phone using faceID or touchID

  • by matthberg on 9/12/17, 6:39 PM

    It's interesting how Apple is moving away from being the first phone with a feature (face id, Samsung did that before, or oled displays that are edge to edge). I think the shift from that innovation is a maturing step, but also a sign that the company is aging poorly. They can no longer claim to be leading with creation, just with quality. More and more the focus in smartphone development, not just Apple, is on being the best of what currently exists instead of actually bringing groundbreaking technology to the table.

  • by yladiz on 9/12/17, 7:10 PM

    I'm impressed with the presentation and looking forward to the iPhone X. Some features are gimmicky like the Animoji, but a lot of the new features and upgrades are really nice. That being said I have two main gripes.

    I know it kind of goes against how their Camera app and system works, but I really wish that Apple would (or will) enable RAW shooting from within the default Camera app. I use a separate app, besides for the special features like level and white balance adjustment, for the RAW shooting. I feel that it's kind of put there because it's available but they don't really care about it -- you can tell from the fact that the Photos app doesn't properly show RAW photos. It would be great if you could seamlessly take a photo and be able to take and export the RAW if you enabled a flag in the settings, just like how 4K was/is hidden behind a flag.

    The other gripe is now the control center is from the top, rather than the bottom. I use the control center often when controlling music and the flashlight and it makes it less usable for one hand. In fact, I'm wondering how the "swipe from the bottom" will work with apps that take over that gesture, because I run into a lot of issues with trying to open the control center but being annoyingly overridden by the current app. I'm hopeful but hesitant that Apple thought of this and worked out kinks regarding this.

  • by cm2187 on 9/12/17, 7:10 PM

    It's interesting that they are not retiring the 6s, which is now 3 generations behind. I am not the only one refusing to buy a smartphone which requires some dongle to listen to my music.

  • by samrohn778 on 9/12/17, 7:26 PM

    iPhone X has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained. What does this in disclaimer section means?

  • by Illniyar on 9/12/17, 9:40 PM

    I know that a ton of people swear by the iPhone, and it will probably be a hit no matter what, but every new one that comes up all I can think of is how much good UX they sacrificed for the shake of having a better looking product.

    One button without an always on back button was already a turnoff for me, but no button at all? at least android has swipe from the bottom.

    FaceID instead of TouchId will remove a lot of use cases people got used to - no longer answering texts in meetings anyone?

  • by pier25 on 9/12/17, 7:21 PM

    I think those screen rounded corners and the cameras space at the top is one of the worst ideas Apple has ever had.

    When they showed a video playing in landscape I could only facepalm.

  • by nom on 9/12/17, 10:59 PM

    So how secure is FaceID actually? It does a 3d scan like the Microsoft Kinect and maybe gathers some more light information in the infrared sprectrum, but that can easily be circumvented with advanced 3D printing.

    They even demonstrate that it recognizes you with facial modification like a new beard, a new haircut or a new pair of glasses.

    By bet it that this technology is totally overblown and circumvented quickly.

  • by runesoerensen on 9/12/17, 6:53 PM

  • by mrmondo on 9/12/17, 9:46 PM

    I very much appreciate the OLED high contrast, wide colour display.

    I have yet not watched the release and read the technical details but I am more than slightly concerned about “Your face becomes your password”, while it’s obviously optional so security conscious people by no means have to use it, I’m not confident that it’s a sensible idea to promote the widespread use of what is known not to be a secure, private piece of information that you can change or choose not to use.

    However, in my opinion Apple is by far one of, it not the most security conscious large corporate manufacturer of hardware and software and generally tries to know as little about your personal data and promote encryption (FileVault, forced phone encryption etc) as much as possible while maintaining practical use for general public. So I am very interested to see what makes this so different from Samsung/Google’s failed and easily bypassed face unlocking they were very vocal about but ultimately was an embarrassing security and PR failure.

  • by amluto on 9/12/17, 8:08 PM

    The dimensions seem much more focused on aesthetics than functionality to me. Being mostly thin doesn't seem to buy much when the camera sticks out. Why not make it uniformly thick and increase the battery capacity?

    For those of us who enjoy one handed use, the SE still seems unmatched.

  • by krishicks on 9/12/17, 8:03 PM

    Has anyone seen anything about how to get it not to unlock automatically with your face when you look at it?

    I have bus times on my lock screen, one swipe to the left away. That seems to become obsolete if the phone automatically unlocks when I look at it.

    Additionally, swiping up from the bottom is the single least effective swipe for me. Pulling up Control Center fails for me more often than not, with the little "looking for me?" rectangular handle popping up on the bottom, and still it doesn't work well.

    I wonder also what this means for screenshots; with no Home Button to push along with the power button, what do you do? And what do those screenshots even look like, given the ears at the top of the display?

  • by kevingrahl on 9/12/17, 6:34 PM

    It was said Face ID is one in a million so that means ~7500 people can unlock my phone..

  • by elorant on 9/12/17, 10:43 PM

    It's funny how the thread has three times more comments that votes. It's like everyone is in a rush to say something but they forget to upvote the story. Shouldn't upvoting be automatic when you comment in a thread?

  • by noncoml on 9/12/17, 7:27 PM

    I don’t see anything justifying the price bump.

  • by captainmuon on 9/12/17, 6:30 PM

    ...and all I wonder is why they are skipping number 9? Are the negative connotations some culture? iPhone NEIN?

    With Windows 9, there was at least the explanation that software might confuse it with Windows 9x (which I didn't buy, since there is view api returning the version as a string, and Windows shims GetVersion if you don't declare compatibility anyway).

    More on topic, this looks nice, I think people will not be disappointed like they were with the MBPs. Can't wait to try it in a store (and probably can't afford it either...). Edit: no touch ID?? Might have spoken too quickly...

  • by aphextron on 9/13/17, 2:11 AM

    I'm pretty impressed and blown away honestly that Apple chose to support Qi wireless charging over coming up with some proprietary nonsense. This might be the killer feature that finally gets me to upgrade.

  • by limeblack on 9/12/17, 7:59 PM

    Features I'm curious how they work on the new iPhone.

    1) Touch status bar to scroll to the top of the page(my favorite iPhone feature).

    2) Locking the screen. I'm assuming the double tap and Siri don't interfere with this.

  • by jasonjayr on 9/12/17, 9:09 PM

    In the disclaimer:

    > iPhone X is splash, water, and dust resistant and was tested under controlled laboratory conditions with a rating of IP67 under IEC standard 60529. Splash, water, and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Do not attempt to charge a wet iPhone; refer to the user guide for cleaning and drying instructions. Liquid damage not covered under warranty.

    I wish they had enough confidence in their water resistance that they would cover water damage to some degree in the warranty ...

  • by ransom1538 on 9/12/17, 11:53 PM

    Hey question. Currently, if an officer has you under arrest they go through your phone. With a strong password, they tend to give up. With FaceID wont they just put it to your face and unlock it?

  • by crsmithdev on 9/12/17, 7:10 PM

    So...wait, wasn't one of the biggest selling points of the (awful) Touch Bar on the latest MBP that it could use Touch ID? And a few months later they are moving away from that entirely?

  • by Mikho on 9/12/17, 9:34 PM

    The notch is really not that good UX. All that elaborations and tricks to show it or hide, to fit in there notifications. If you go bezel-less, one of the best options now is Xiaomi Mi Mix 2. There are already reviews on YouTube. I'd say it is the best configuration yet for that type of a phone. Also, it's worth to consider that it is already the second iteration after the first Mi Mix.

    http://www.mi.com/mix2/

  • by hungerstrike on 9/12/17, 7:07 PM

    How do you get to the home screen?

    For instance if I'm using an app right now I hit the home button and it take me to my home screen with all of my app icons. How do I do this on the iPhone X?

  • by pow_pp_-1_v on 9/12/17, 7:49 PM

    Being that it is the 10th anniversary, I was hoping they will come out with something ground-breaking. iPhone X seems like a good phone. But it's just a better iPhone 7.

  • by patzol on 9/12/17, 8:09 PM

    Although iPhone X is a beautiful device and depth camera will have many innovative applications, I'm so disappointed with iPhone 8(plus). There is barely any difference with iPhone 7(plus). As for wireless charging - seems like charging pad will be available only next year and you will have to spend extra money. Considering rumored problems with iPhone X production and starting shipping it beginning november I would expect their year to year sales go down.

  • by RayVR on 9/12/17, 7:12 PM

    Given how painfully slow wireless charging is, I'd prefer they go for the rapid charging feature. May not be as sexy but it's way more useful.

  • by Taniwha on 9/12/17, 11:23 PM

    I'm going to train future face recognition phone to only work if I close one eye and stick my tongue out ... the border guards will never guess

  • by mrfusion on 9/12/17, 8:21 PM

    If it's using steel does that mean it will be magnetnetic?

    That would be neat to attach it to my wall. And it would open up a lot of options for car holders.

  • by swsh on 9/12/17, 10:22 PM

    By not marketing it as a replacement for the 7, Apple has managed to significantly bump the price of the device with barely anyone the wiser. Anyone hazard a guess at the increase in apples profit margin on the X. The price appears to have gone up significantly, for a comparatively small increase in BOM cost.

    Even if you question their design decisions, it's hard to fault their product strategy

  • by mrsmee89 on 9/12/17, 8:32 PM

    Perhaps the UX needs to be felt in person but it feels like a way worse UX than before. It seems Apple is losing sight of the question which IMO should define the choices we make when it comes to technology. Does it make peoples lives better? I don't see how this phone does. It feels like apple made something for the purpose of making people want it. It's un-apple like.

  • by deedubaya on 9/12/17, 6:39 PM

    Say what you want about practicality, the facial tracking on this is pretty impressive..... aaannnd Apple uses it to give us the Poop Animoji.

  • by mrfusion on 9/12/17, 8:16 PM

    How do you check notifications with your face? Or switch songs while jogging? Seems like it would unlock as soon as you look at it?

  • by wffurr on 9/12/17, 9:09 PM

    Seems crazy that they have no less than eight models of iPhone available at once: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/

    Why are the 6S and 6S Plus still there? Why no love for the iPhone SE? It's now two entire generations of processor behind.

  • by nunez on 9/12/17, 10:37 PM

    Re: black bar. For what it's worth, folks that reviewed the Essential Phone said that the notch on the top does "go away" after using it for a few days.

    What I am more disappointed about is Apple not going with a curved display. It looks amazing on the S8 and taking it edge to edge would have made for an incredible bezel-less illusion.

  • by Karunamon on 9/12/17, 7:10 PM

    I really don't see the extra $300 justification between this and the regular iPhone 8. A slightly better screen and better camera with otherwise similar specs. Edge to edge and face scanning emojis are neat, but I just can't justify that kind of spend for it.

    That, and I'm not all that jazzed about Face ID. Seems less secure than touch.

  • by jnwatson on 9/12/17, 7:25 PM

    Wouldn't Face ID allow a stolen phone to be easily unlocked? Just put the stolen phone in a different container (with a hole for the camera/sensors) and point it at the victim.

    My daughter likes to "steal" my phone to play games on it. With touch ID, she can't. She wouldn't have a problem if the phone has Face ID.

  • by dylan-m on 9/13/17, 12:18 AM

    So does it bug anyone else that the status bar around the notch looks misaligned? The rounded corners make me feel think it's sticking out past the bottom of the notch, and there's this huge empty space above it. Especially weird with the clock. Maybe it's one of those things that looks better in person.

  • by VeejayRampay on 9/12/17, 9:52 PM

    I don't understand why the website keeps repeating "it's all screen" even though the phone is not all screen. I own a entry-level Motorola G5S, never owned a Samsung before so not fanboying here, but their phones strike me more as "all screen" than this iPhone X. Am I missing something?

  • by Bogi30 on 9/13/17, 8:26 AM

    Price of this phone wtf is this in my country cost 1200 euro this cheaper version :/ http://blendberg.com/pl/oferta-bazy-danych-gotowe-bazy-danyc...

  • by raesene9 on 9/12/17, 6:33 PM

    I do hope Apple have got this facial recognition stuff right, but personally I'm skeptical that it'll be better than TouchID.

    For me, from reading previously leaks, this feels like a compromise where design (we want a phone that's all screen) wins out over usuability (TouchID is great for usuable security)

  • by kristjankalm on 9/12/17, 9:04 PM

    > The most powerful and smartest chip ever in a smartphone, with a neural engine that’s capable of up to 600 billion operations per second.

    sorry but "neural engine" is just too funny. i mean there's normal levels of bullshit bingo and then there's branding your chip "neural engine".

  • by Viper007Bond on 9/12/17, 7:54 PM

    Bummer about the size. The Plus is a monster to me and I prefer the pocket-happy size of my regular 6.

  • by makecheck on 9/13/17, 5:17 AM

    I kind of wish the "home screen line" at the bottom was a big long thick rounded line to mirror the notch on top. That would make the notch a lot less jarring. In the screenshots the "normal" UI seems to never use the bottom space anyway.

  • by maruhan2 on 9/13/17, 12:34 AM

    Rather off-topic question. How do you make an animation via scrolling like their "X"?

  • by johnward on 9/12/17, 9:45 PM

    As an Android user I'm still kind of interested in this phone. One thing that bothers me on most phones is the camera sticking out the back. It ends up being the point of contact to every surface you sit it on and sometimes the camera glass breaks.

  • by mementomori on 9/12/17, 6:35 PM

    Someone can drug me and hold the phone in front of my unconscious face to access all my data?

  • by yellowapple on 9/13/17, 6:43 AM

    Didn't we already learn 20 years ago that if an Apple product ends in an X, virtually nobody will actually say it like the X is a Roman numeral?

    Or am I a transplant from that weird parallel universe with "Mack Oh Ess Ecks" and the Berenstein Bears?

  • by amelius on 9/13/17, 9:38 AM

    Why don't we have unlock you phone with your watch? Or unlock a desktop with your watch? Or enter a password on a website with your watch?

    Sounds more useful and secure to me than any fingerprint/facial scanner. And it allows Apple to sell more watches.

  • by nojvek on 9/13/17, 2:57 PM

    I'm just excited the GPU'S are getting faster in a mobile device. I really wanted Apple to have more pixel density in their iPhone X. 2000+ do would mean that we can wear an iPhone as a head set and have a descent VR experience.

  • by Jyaif on 9/12/17, 6:37 PM

    I love how for their demo they selected videos where it was dark where the screen bump is.

  • by LouisSayers on 9/13/17, 1:25 AM

    And in future news:

    "Celebrity gets iPhone stolen. Naked photos unlocked at wax museum." :D

  • by B1FF_PSUVM on 9/12/17, 8:23 PM

    I'm still sorry for the things we'll be missing with the loss of Metro Design, now lying in its deathbed in Windows 10 Mobile.

    Wish Apple had the balls to just plain steal it, the iPhone home screen nowadays seems from last century.

  • by callesgg on 9/12/17, 8:17 PM

    That is some extraordinary marketing.

    I just want it. But i know i have absolutely no need for it.

  • by rpowers on 9/12/17, 9:55 PM

    So many people pre-complaining about some actually neat stuff. The screen looks fine, stoked about the HDR10. Portraits will looks really nice. Wireless charging is a big plus. I think this will be a great phone.

  • by dopamean on 9/12/17, 6:33 PM

    I turned off the stream because I needed to get back to work. Did they say anything about security for FaceID? Such as where the data about your face is stored. Or what about just holding up a photo of someone?

  • by alex_duf on 9/13/17, 9:38 AM

    The OLED screen and the gesture based UI makes me think about the Nokia N9.

    Loved that phone.

  • by myrandomcomment on 9/12/17, 8:11 PM

    Meh. I still have a 6P. I will pick up used 7 now (as there is always a ton for sale after a new iPhone) so I can use the NFC for the Tokyo subway. The face thing to unlock to pay is a non-starter for me.

  • by riazrizvi on 9/12/17, 8:06 PM

    It would be awesome if they could use the facial recognition feature to eliminate the problem with spurious landscape/portrait mode switches when you are lying in bed, reading the phone at an angle.

  • by darrmit on 9/12/17, 7:10 PM

    Even prior to the leak it seemed (to me) like it would be hard to improve on the 6s/7, and the keynote confirmed it.

    From wireless charging to FaceID it just feels like a bunch of incremental, gimmick-y changes.

  • by banach on 9/13/17, 3:31 AM

    I was surprised not to see a reconstruction of your own face as one of the animoji options. More than a novelty, it could be very valuable possession to a family member, after someone passes away.

  • by sigjuice on 9/12/17, 10:33 PM

    They already butchered the MacBook Pro with the TouchBar last year. And all for a 30 second demo during the keynote. Here's hoping that FaceID actually works and isn't FacePalmID :/

  • by danijelb on 9/12/17, 6:28 PM

    FaceID shows the difference between Apple and other smartphone manufacturers. Apple doesn't release features until they are absolutely sure they can engineer them to work perfectly.

  • by halfnibble on 9/13/17, 7:29 AM

    Swipe gestures, a steel frame, and a higher ppi screen. It sounds like the iPhone may have finally caught up with my BlackBerry Passport SE. Maybe I'll give the iPhoneX a try.

  • by Tomte on 9/12/17, 6:25 PM

    First thought: how well can they discern in the mail app whether I wanted to scroll down or go to the home screen?

    I probably have to swipe carefully from the very bottom or stay away from the bottom?

  • by nodesocket on 9/13/17, 12:42 AM

    Do we have any idea what carriers like Verizon will charge to lease the X? I am currently paying $109 all in for 4GB of data and unlimited calls and txt. Phone is iPhone 7 128GB.

  • by syntaxing on 9/12/17, 8:09 PM

    I'm pretty curious about the new AI chip that Apple might put in their phone. If the integration with Core ML works well, it might lead to a series of new interesting apps.

  • by humbleMouse on 9/12/17, 6:34 PM

    Another reason to keep using my iphone-5s. New phones are way too big, and I love the home button. If I was forced to upgrade I'd get the iphone 7 se (the mini one)

  • by jtl999 on 9/12/17, 11:32 PM

    I hope the OLED display used in the iPhone X doesn't use PWM, unlike Samsung.

    LG OLED TV's seem nice as well, although I haven't looked at them for a long period of time.

  • by zeep on 9/13/17, 1:39 AM

    "Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen"

    so the iPhone 2x will have no speaker or camera in the front... or they will be behind the screen.

  • by RayVR on 9/12/17, 7:11 PM

    I can't wait for someone to pick up my phone, point it at my face and have it unlock. Hope it has a "User sleeping, can't unlock" feature.

  • by ocdtrekkie on 9/12/17, 6:48 PM

    The Animoji thing is surprisingly neat. I was all prepped to make fun of it when they put the name on the screen, but that's just... really really neat.

  • by jimbert on 9/12/17, 10:00 PM

    How do Muslim women that cover their faces use this phone?

  • by pi-rat on 9/12/17, 8:40 PM

    So, how do you snap a screenshot without the home button?

  • by martijn_himself on 9/13/17, 8:21 AM

    I'm more than happy to pay £1k for the iPhone X if it docks and I'm able to use it as a Mac Mini running MacOS. It should be powerful enough.

  • by forgot-my-pw on 9/12/17, 7:46 PM

    What exactly is a bionic chip? Is it just the codename?

  • by oliv__ on 9/12/17, 8:55 PM

    So with FaceId being able to unlock my phone at any time, does that mean it will be filming everything, all the time, waiting to detect a face?

  • by liberte82 on 9/12/17, 11:14 PM

    I can already tell I'm soon going to be very tired of the word notch. It's starting to feel like the tartlets from Seinfeld.

  • by brailsafe on 9/12/17, 9:02 PM

    Anyone else experience major issues with the website? It's inscrutable to me with the scroll based parallax nonsense breaking horribly.

  • by amelius on 9/12/17, 9:55 PM

    It seems the camera sticks out at the back. This would mean it's not possible to put the phone stably on a flat surface. Is this true?

  • by mads on 9/12/17, 7:48 PM

    ..

  • by LeicaLatte on 9/12/17, 9:10 PM

    The only way to stop someone from unlocking your device by just pointing it at your face is to close your eyes. Dealbreaker.

  • by perseusprime11 on 9/12/17, 6:58 PM

    How many folks thought the bezel up top is weird? They should have captured the screen space for something else.

  • by heliumcraft on 9/12/17, 6:59 PM

    What's the point of the iPhone 8? It's essentially an upgrade to the iphone 7S and that's all.

  • by dade_ on 9/12/17, 6:57 PM

    Finally, wireless charging, they even support standard Qi, but how are they making Qi work like a power mat?

  • by tanilama on 9/13/17, 2:46 AM

    No desire to buy one. Even it is well within my range of purchase power, this shit is expensive as hell.

  • by Dravidian on 9/13/17, 2:43 AM

    People who use 1000$ iPhoneX on office desk need another 400$ apple Watch to check for notifications.

  • by iamwil on 9/12/17, 7:31 PM

    Just checking, this isn't with a see-through glass, right? The phone isn't translucent.

  • by masterleep on 9/12/17, 9:24 PM

    I'd pay $200 to get rid of the haptic home button. Always hated the feel of that thing.

  • by gigatexal on 9/12/17, 8:25 PM

    what a whole lot of meh regarding the Iphone X. The watch series 3 though, that I am getting.

  • by billconan on 9/12/17, 11:16 PM

    Does anybody know if there is an api to access the raw depth data of the truedepth camera?

  • by d--b on 9/12/17, 10:17 PM

    Everybody is discussing the features like they've already bought it. But I find that literally none of the features of the X make sense over the 7, or the 6 even. Maybe a lot of people said this before but to me that's it. The iPhone X event should be remembered as the event when Apple jumped the shark.

  • by rurban on 9/13/17, 4:50 AM

    Did they botch the Mac Air upgrade similar to the Pro now? Or is it still usable?

  • by jlarocco on 9/12/17, 10:17 PM

    Meh. I'm surprised they bumped the version to "X" for this.

    Not every release can be amazing, but this is just an incremental hardware upgrade with some features taken out.

    Meanwhile, they haven't fixed any of the most infuriating and annoying iOS bugs, and don't seem to have any plans to do so...

  • by hatcherdogg on 9/12/17, 8:53 PM

    Great concept. I'll take the revised XS later, and an 8 now.

  • by drama-queen on 9/12/17, 11:30 PM

    Telescreen X! Now with an improved backdoor!! Buy now!!!

  • by limaoscarjuliet on 9/12/17, 10:30 PM

    Does face recognition mean my twin brother can use my phone to pay for his beer?

    BTW, wondering how fast until there is "3D print you GF face so you can unlock her phone" service. I see Ali Express business booming.

  • by nadim on 9/12/17, 10:03 PM

    Huge shout out to RZA, for making it into that Keynote.

  • by miguelrochefort on 9/12/17, 7:15 PM

    iPhone X starts at $1,516.85 in Canada (after taxes)...

  • by mtgx on 9/12/17, 6:34 PM

    Did the FaceID just fail on stage for Craig Federighi?

  • by perseusprime11 on 9/12/17, 9:53 PM

    They should rename this to iPhone N (N for Notch).

  • by retox on 9/13/17, 1:20 AM

    No information about RAM or CPU speed/cores?

  • by amelius on 9/12/17, 9:50 PM

    > Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen. (...) Say hello to the future.

    Haven't we seen such phones from other companies already a thousand times over?

  • by trhway on 9/12/17, 8:25 PM

    I think Jobs would be throwing it into aquarium until the black notch bar is removed. After looking at those photos the notch is pain in the eyes and pure abomination.

  • by sarang23592 on 9/12/17, 6:51 PM

    Will iphone X have passcode along with FaceId

  • by nnd on 9/12/17, 7:34 PM

    With all that hype building up, I was hoping they would introduce something less underwhelming than an iPhone without a home button like you know... a new wearable.

  • by snowpanda on 9/12/17, 6:41 PM

    Face ID seems like a great way to build a global database of people's faces. Not saying they will, but if they wanted to, that would be the way to do it.

  • by aeleos on 9/12/17, 6:34 PM

    Lol the first Face ID demo had some issues

  • by TekMol on 9/12/17, 7:56 PM

    Both the 8 and the X have the pressure sensitivity "3D Touch". Is that actually useful? To the HN users with iPhones: Do you use it?

  • by LeicaLatte on 9/12/17, 9:31 PM

    Expecting the iPhone X to be delayed beyond November. The phone isn't cooked enough yet and I think they have announced it prematurely.

  • by SadWebDeveloper on 9/12/17, 7:51 PM

    Face ID bypass will sure be available Nov 4-5

    Also wonder if this "security feature" is NSA-approved, m pretty sure it is.

  • by Multicomp on 9/12/17, 7:49 PM

    I can't wait to see the Youtube videos of people 'taking a selfie' just to unlock their iPhones

  • by mzzter on 9/12/17, 10:39 PM

    Wow, it's not aluminum..

  • by bluetomcat on 9/12/17, 7:24 PM

    Infrared rays striking your eyes and face each time you look at your phone? Health implications?

  • by fokinsean on 9/12/17, 6:40 PM

    But where's iphone 9

  • by alexnewman on 9/12/17, 10:42 PM

    Welp staying with my SE

  • by tinhangliu on 9/12/17, 8:00 PM

    Am I the only person not excited about the iPhone since the release of the 4s?

  • by ricokatayama on 9/13/17, 3:27 AM

    Rounded Corners, Rounded Corners Everywhere!

    Let's watch Spider-Man with a rounded screen

  • by oregondan on 9/12/17, 9:14 PM

    That's funny, Apple pulled a Microsoft and skipped 9 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • by ratsz on 9/13/17, 4:40 AM

    geometric data is a username, not a password

  • by thomastjeffery on 9/12/17, 9:39 PM

    So a neutered 2K screen, and an x% faster APU...

    How is this worth over $999?

  • by Exuma on 9/12/17, 9:36 PM

    What do you do if you want to go to a costume party? Lol

  • by nickpp on 9/12/17, 8:18 PM

    Is it Pentile?!

  • by drcongo on 9/12/17, 9:08 PM

    Can we call that notch what it is please, a monobrow.

  • by aphextron on 9/12/17, 6:47 PM

    Back glass...

  • by jorgemf on 9/12/17, 7:43 PM

    when the iPhone X SE?

  • by lightedman on 9/12/17, 8:02 PM

    Goodbye privacy? A phone that can be unlocked with your face = easy enough for cops to snoop on you. No need for a password, just taking your phone and pointing it at your face unlocks it.

  • by widowlark on 9/12/17, 7:24 PM

    This just in: Apple releases the Samsung Galaxy S8, calls it an iPhone

  • by miguelrochefort on 9/12/17, 6:54 PM

    - Ugly notch

    - No USB-C

    - Gimmicky features

    - Protruding camera

    - $999

  • by gshakir on 9/12/17, 6:27 PM

    Face ID = Where the camera watches you all the time.

  • by gshakir on 9/12/17, 7:47 PM

    Apple Watch is the new iPhone. The iPhone is becoming a home computer. Watch it.

  • by HugoDaniel on 9/12/17, 7:31 PM

    Does it mean that the next version will be called Iphony ?

  • by madshiva on 9/13/17, 7:35 AM

    $ 1200 for a brick and people still buy this crap phone. All people who buy this phone should be ashamed. Stop wasting the earth. Thanks.

  • by pluma on 9/12/17, 6:24 PM

    Interesting how they decided to already publish the article although they have nothing more than the teaser but no actual content.

    > So what does a decade of iPhone innovation look like?

    > Developing… Please refresh for updates.

  • by sccxy on 9/12/17, 6:26 PM

    Keynote is quite boring after so many leaks.

  • by xvolter on 9/12/17, 7:21 PM

    Are they aware that "Surgical‑grade stainless steel" means extremely cheap? Surgical‑grade stainless steel is designed to be single-use. They advertise their phone as having steel that is good enough to use once?

  • by veeragoni on 9/12/17, 8:31 PM

    The phone is definitely 2017. But I would like to condemn those who say its futuristic. Whats so futuristic about it?! is it foldable? Is it wearable? Does it generate holographic images, Does it at least project to wall for larger display? Does the battery lasts a week? They could have placed a touchID on the back(well, may be next iPhone). You might say, I am asking way too much in 2017. Yes I am! Thats why its not futuristic.

  • by blaincate on 9/12/17, 9:22 PM

    Just Realized : Face recognition unlock : Biggest Security Scare

    - Case 1 : Imagine crossing security check or border crossing. Guards just take your phone and point it to you : UNLOCKED . No need to resis to give passwd

    - Case 2 : drug the activist and point unconscious victim ! Voila !

    - Case 3 : Steal the phone, and change the cover and flash it in front of the real owner !

    could go on and on ...

  • by potrebitel on 9/12/17, 6:24 PM

    Developing… Please refresh for updates.

    Obviously the "hype" for a new iphone is still up & running since there is a thread for not yet officially announced device...

  • by AndrewKemendo on 9/12/17, 8:19 PM

    I really wanted to see this turn the iPhone X into the primary computer for all things - replace the MBP and the iPad line. Dock to screen/keyboard etc... so that everything is just running off of the phone.

    That would be a perfect jump off point to AR glasses with the phone as the computing engine in 2020.

    It would let Apple re-focus, kill a bunch of product lines and swallow the market with a singular device + robust peripheral market.

  • by 45h34jh53k4j on 9/12/17, 7:11 PM

    I am not interested in the X model without TouchID. FaceID provides a less secure authentication method than TouchID.

    * Sleeping victims * Attacker holds the phone to your face

    Its not as simple as using the 'wrong finger'. You only have one face.

    This is awful, Apple. What were you thinking?