by _delirium on 4/17/17, 3:08 PM
The extent of democracy in Turkey 1921-2017 is being rather idealized by a lot of these articles. It was for large periods a quasi-democracy with a strong role for the military (on a few occasions explicitly as military dictators, on many more occasions less explicitly). And beyond the military, also a strong role for paramilitaries.
In this referendum, for example, the ultra-nationalist party MHP played a strong role, supporting Erdogan. Along with their notorious neo-fascist paramilitary units, the Grey Wolves, which attacked "no" demonstrations, especially any linked to Kurdish groups. But these militias aren't a new development. They're decades old, and have had various political roles over the years, usually linked to the "democratic" establishment. Historically the MHP often carried out dirty work for the Kemalists, especially operations that the military didn't want to do officially, like attacks on leftist intellectuals and Kurdish cultural figures. What's changed is that the MHP has switched alliances from working with them to working with the AKP, at least for now, which is part of an ongoing reorientation of political alliances. A weird alliance though, since AKP are more Islamist and MHP don't really care about Islam.
by abpavel on 4/17/17, 3:16 PM
Well, he tried aligning Turkey to Europe, paving the way for EU membership, visa-free travel, and even shot down Russian's plane to show his European alignment. That was the crest of the Western wave for him. Once he saw that EU is just a pipe dream, and after through discussion with Putin, he decided on a new way, returning his people back to the Islamic roots, purging opposition, and controlling ethnic groups, especially Kurds, who pose a big problem considering they are over 10% of the population, and would eventually want independence, hence Kurdish activity in Syria.
Sad outcome. Especially with 99% or so voting turnout, and such a close result. 97-99% voting turnout on such a large scale is a classic telltale sign of fabrication balloting, and was standard since at least CCCP, just like in Crimea independence referendum. With such a close result it would mean he was losing 70/30 by vote on a standard 70% turnout, but padding his numbers by 30% with his ballots was sufficient for him to maintain grip and win. Each successive referendum will make him stronger, unleashing his full potential without pesky opposition "provocateurs".
by sz4kerto on 4/17/17, 2:52 PM
I'm afraid this is going to happen inside the EU as well (Hungary, Poland... ). What can I do to prevent this? (I live here and I want to keep living here if possible.)
by mrwilhelm on 4/17/17, 4:03 PM
I can't believe they changed rules after the voting has started. These new rule allows people to vote even if their envelopes don't have seal. This is against constitution. It clearly states that these votes will not be count if they don't have seals.
1.5 Million vote envelope don't have seals. Who knows where they came from?
Difference between yes-no around 1.3 million.
We just can't do anything about it.
by a_alakkad on 4/17/17, 3:38 PM
As a Syrian, Turkey is the most country that welcomes (and still welcoming) us between its people.
All other countries (except some like Sudan) doesn't require a visa for Syrians, while all other countries require one.
The world still doesn't understand this war we have and think it's a civil war.
People can't imagine that the few news they hear is true, they think exaggerated news.. believe me, it is not exaggerated at all, the opposite is true.
Children died from chemical weapons, a father has held his two twins after they died, all of this are happening to Syrians, and no one cares.
For Syrians, Turkey has done a lot and we appreciate it a lot, and we pray that Turkey stays safe in all aspects.
by giorgosts on 4/17/17, 3:27 PM
Kemalist Turkey was authoritarian from its infancy, with the military establishment in a central political role. Throughout its history, any attempt for liberalization / democratization, respect for human / minority rights etc. was quashed. This domestic and international behavior of Turkey was tolerated by its western allies (namely US and UK) because of its friendly orientation towards these powers. See for example the various coups and juntas, jailing of opposition and journalists, banning of the minority rights (e.g. language) of Kurds, the invasion and continuous occupation of Cyprus, etc.
The unknown factor from a western perspective is how this new Turkey will align itself (or not) with western interests, not a sudden sympathy for fellow Turks.
by dleslie on 4/17/17, 3:13 PM
Worth noting is the extent of power held by the Canadian PM:
> As such, the prime minister, supported by the Office of the Prime Minister (PMO), controls the appointments of many key figures in Canada's system of governance, including the governor general, the Cabinet, justices of the Supreme Court, senators, heads of crown corporations, ambassadors to foreign countries, the provincial lieutenant governors, and approximately 3,100 other positions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Canada
Chilling, isn't it? Perhaps this change in Turkey is an opportunity to engage in political change here in the Americas.
by digi_owl on 4/17/17, 4:09 PM
I see a whole lot of EU this, EU that.
But at the same time it is glossed over that Turkey is a NATO member, and the second largest standing army within NATO.
by whack on 4/17/17, 3:40 PM
It seems somewhat premature to proclaim the death of Turkey, just because they've expanded the powers of a democratically elected office. I often wonder if the system of gridlock (ie, checks and balances) found in many democracies, actually lead to better outcomes than having a system that is free of gridlock but still accountable to voters through free elections.
by lossolo on 4/17/17, 2:59 PM
In 90s in Turkey, military was securing that country was non-clerical. When president wanted to bring sharia he received call from head of military saying that he have 24 hours to resign or army will act. No one is securing this now, that's why turkey have new Sultan. Modern turkey society will be transformed same way like it happened in Iran 40 years ago. Shame that coup d'etat was so amateurish in Turkey, now it's too late.
by ajmurmann on 4/17/17, 3:59 PM
It seems like most of these right wing leaders with authoritarian tendencies are ejected primarily by poorer, rural people with less than average education. I wonder why this is? Is it because they are hit harder by economic problems? During time of economic struggle we seem more likely to elect leaders like this. Or does it have to do with a lack of education? Maybe there is yet another reason?
by whizzkid on 4/17/17, 4:04 PM
I think it is important to note that voting resulted in Yes by %51-%48 which is so close.
3 biggest cities in Turkey voted for No. These 3 cities are having the most educated people. As long as people get more educated and it easier for them to reach for knowledge, it is going to get better for Turkey.
by Xeoncross on 4/17/17, 3:20 PM
> Turkey’s Islamists have long venerated the Ottoman period. In doing so, they implicitly expressed thinly veiled contempt for the Turkish Republic. For Necmettin Erbakan, who led the movement from the late 1960s to the emergence of the Justice and Development Party (AKP) in August 2001, the republic represented cultural abnegation and repressive secularism in service of what he believed was Ataturk’s misbegotten ideas that the country could be made Western and the West would accept it. Rather, he saw Turkey’s natural place not at NATO’s headquarters in Brussels but as a leader of the Muslim world, whose partners should be Pakistan, Malaysia, Egypt, Iran, and Indonesia.
by danielam on 4/17/17, 3:22 PM
by my123 on 4/17/17, 2:50 PM
Might be a bit overblown - other presidential regimes such as France include many of the powers that Erdogan is claiming. As long as guaranteeing an independent judiciary can be done - the powers can be controlled(Trump couldn't do what he wanted to by a long shot)
by sukruh on 4/17/17, 4:54 PM
by jbmorgado on 4/17/17, 3:09 PM
Sincerely, as an European this makes me uneasy. Not because of Erdogan or Turkey itself, that's not what takes my sleep. But for knowing that the spiral into madness in Turkey now seems unstoppable and in 5/10/15 years it will blow up and, yet again, Europe will be called to take care of their problems and, yet again, be blamed for not doing enough.
Once again we will have to open our borders to this good people running away from a war and once again we will have to pretend that the majority of them didn't actually choose this way of life by supporting some dictator/ideology whose main ideologic pillars are xenophoby against people that don't follow their religion their way (Kurds) and a return to islamism in some form of Sharia.
by ythn on 4/17/17, 2:57 PM
I don't want to start any flamewars, but how much responsibility does Islam have in this development? Are there any Islam-majority countries whose governments aren't garbage?
by diminish on 4/17/17, 3:15 PM
Sadly it's the time of the populists, racists and fascists all over.
RIP Austria (OVP), long time ago. RIP France (soon, NF - Le Pen). RIP Germany (soon AfD). RIP Holland (soon Vilgers), RIp Russia, RIP Hungary. In similar lines - Maybe RIP USA too. (Trump).
by pknerd on 4/17/17, 3:05 PM
So just because Turks opted for an "Islamist" government, Western media have been mourning for hours. Had it been someone like Sissy then everyone was going to praise about it.
I can laugh at the hypocrisy of Western media and it's support to.. Democracy.
PS: Thanks for down vote, I can understand this unexpected results are not making many happy, that's OK. I was not happy when Trump became President but then I respect the choice of voters :-)
by na85 on 4/17/17, 2:54 PM
An important step in world history, to be sure. However this decay of the Rule of Law is happening everywhere, not just in West Asia. People always turn towards authoritarianism when the going gets tough. One has only to look at the United States to see that the Rule of Law hasn't been respected for years: politicians and public officials perjuring themselves, intelligence agencies run amok, flagrant civil rights violations by police.
It's easy to justify one's actions, no matter how repugnant, against the spectre of some unknown enemy.
by xmonader on 4/17/17, 3:02 PM
Well, Turkey represents the dream of what every muslim wants and been like that before attaturk denounced caliphat.
Just leave the people the chance to state/express what they want (democratically) without coups that we always suffer from. When the people choice doesn't go with the west the unleash their military pets and force a coup.