from Hacker News

Milk that lasts for months

by akandiah on 4/2/17, 8:49 PM with 186 comments

• by corin_ on 4/2/17, 9:26 PM

  There's a very noticeable difference in taste between pasteurised and UHT milk, and anecdotally, based on discussing with multiple friends over the years, people who are used to pasteurised think UHT tastes worse, people who are used to UHT don't notice the difference, or notice but don't mind either way.

  Personally, as a Brit (pasteurised is the norm) who has lived in France and Belgium, I'd always choose pasteurised. To drink on its own, UHT is significantly not nice to my tastebuds. With breakfast cereal its OK but still worse. A small amount in coffee and I don't notice the difference.

  In Paris, finding pasteurised was pretty easy to do - although shops gave much more shelf space to UHT, I rarely struggled to find fresh milk. In Belgium on the other hand... near where I was living in a city, only one of 4 chain supermarkets and none of the cornershops sold non-UHT milk.

  It's quite possible that if I spent <x amount of time> drinking lots and lots of UHT milk eventually my preference might change. I'm not planning on trying, though.

• by dsacco on 4/3/17, 3:50 AM

  This is interesting to me because one of my favorite weird hobbies is going to my grocery store, taking a photo of the milk with the farthest date, and sending it to my friends as a sort of game.

  I shop at Stew Leonard's most of the time (locations in NY and CT). The milk I buy there is organic and lasts a hell of a long time compared to the milk I frequently see in other supermarkets. The current record I've seen is a gallon of milk with an expiration date 63 days from the day I saw it. I'd say the median is maybe...50 ish days (I shop on Sundays, when I think they've likely restocked).

  I regularly buy three gallons at a time, and to this day I find it to be the most fun and humorous part of shopping at the grocery store. This milk has literally never gone bad for me and it tastes delicious.

  After reading this article, I'm really interested in knowing whether or not it's heat-treated! I have always assumed it lasts so long because Stew Leonard's owns their own farms relatively close to the grocery stores.

• by ccozan on 4/3/17, 8:48 AM

  After I moved to rural Germany, I was happy to find out that the local farmers will sell you milk.

  Since then I only drink that really fresh milk, milked in the same day. The first 4 cm of the bottle are just cream. Is incredibly tasty and you can make any kind of cheese or Yoghurt with it - you need the right bacteria, of course.

  Another interesting bit: I used to cook it and then drink it. Not doing this anymore. Some people say is not healthy, but I can really see the cows from where is coming. There is no place where it might be contaminated. And also it resists about a week in the fridge, after that it transforms into a nice refreshing fermented milk drink.

• by bad_user on 4/3/17, 8:56 AM

  In my mind edible substances that last a long time are free of nutrients and high in calories, most of the time anyway.

  I never buy UHT milk and try buying fresh, locally produced milk whenever I can find it. I never buy low fat milk either.

  The difference in taste between fresh milk and these replacements is actually huge. I also don't get people buying the low fat variety either. If you're concerned about fat or cholesterol, it's better to drink less, high-quality milk, instead of milk-like liquids enriched with powdered milk, pork fat and dyes (the exact composition of these replacements varies by country, but it's always processed to the point that you can no longer classify it as being milk).

• by donw on 4/3/17, 3:00 AM

  I didn't discover UHT milk until I moved to Germany, and went to the supermarket. It seems that every culture has its own grocery taxonomy, so I had to ask an employee where I could find the milk.

  She pointed me towards the milk aisle, and I was amazed that none of it was refrigerated. Sure, you can buy fresh milk in Germany, but it seems that UHT is considered more the "standard".

  I have to say, I preferred the taste to either American or Japanese milk, and fell in love with the convenience of being able to keep a case of the stuff in my pantry.

• by raimue on 4/3/17, 8:36 AM

  A few years ago, super markets in Germany (and I guess also in other European countries) switched from selling pasteurized milk to ESL milk (Extended Shelf Life). It has actually became quite hard to find any non-ESL milk in grocery stores.

  ESL milk last for 2-3 weeks in the fridge, but it has not been heated to the same degree as UHT milk. Therefore it still tastes better, but not the same as pasteurized milk.

• by gambiting on 4/2/17, 9:20 PM

  I was actually very surprised when I first moved to UK to find that milk here spoils within a few days of purchase, I was so used to UHT milk that we would normally buy several cartons of, and then it would last months(obviously only few days after opening, but we could conceivably buy a 6-month supply and just keep it in the basement for later consumption). Nowadays I found where to buy UHT milk in the UK, it gets me some weird looks from my friends but the convenience of not having to go to a store to buy fresh milk every few days is absolutely worth it.

• by altano on 4/2/17, 9:54 PM

  I don't find pasteurization to make as much of a difference as other things like fat content. Whole milk is sooo much better than skim milk, for example.

  I love milk and since moving to California I haven't been able to find anything nearly as good as what we had in Boston. There was this brand High Lawn Farms that had tangibly better milk. You could even notice the difference when used in small amounts in tea/coffee, which is probably why every single local coffee shop used it. Someone should figure out what they are doing differently.

• by davegardner on 4/3/17, 9:36 AM

  You can certainly use UHT milk to make cheeses that don't contain rennet such as paneer, ricotta, and quark. Some argue that you can't make good quality versions of these cheeses with UHT milk. From personal experience, I've made quark with UHT milk and it seemed pretty good quality to me.

  I do get excellent results making yoghurt with UHT milk. It's also a simpler process as there is no need to heat the milk first before adding the starter.

• by cedex12 on 4/3/17, 9:44 AM

  Slightly off-topic, but how far are we from producing artificial milk? It would seem like a relatively easy thing to do (at least compared to meat), and with high payoff (vegetarian diet without the ethical and ecological problems of animal dairy).

• by blahedo on 4/3/17, 2:55 AM

  About fifteen years ago, I had a housemate who was from Italy, and she thought the milk I bought (standard US whole milk) was gross and, she said, "tastes like cheese". I had already been exposed to shelf-stable milk on a previous trip to Europe, so we soon figured out that was the source of the issue, but reading this article suggests she may have been exceptionally perceptive with the cheese comment.

• by dghughes on 4/3/17, 2:54 AM

  This would be great for the Canadian north where food is incredibly expensive due to the cost of shipping and storage. For example a 2 liter bottle of orange juice is $30, 4 liters of milk $10. the UHT milk could bring that cost down if it can be stored in bulk for long periods of time.

• by matt_wulfeck on 4/3/17, 6:51 AM

  This was a really fun comments section to read. It's really interesting to see how much variation there is in the international milk market!

• by chomp on 4/3/17, 4:14 AM

  You can't make mozzarella with UHT milk. One nice thing about regular pasteurized milk is that it forms curds easier and has higher yield. I love going to the store and buying a gallon to turn to fresh mozz.

• by drivingmenuts on 4/3/17, 2:19 AM

  Apropos link: http://cnqzu.com/library/Anarchy%20Folder/Fiction/Stephenson...

  I remember reading that some years ago and wondering if it was like condensed milk (which would probably be pretty awful on Captain Crunch cereal). Now, I think the cereal might be the key thing to hide the flavor of UHT milk.

• by garyclarke27 on 4/3/17, 7:19 AM

  British / Irish pasteurised milk tastes so much fresher than pasteurised milk in other countries, must be our abundant green grass, British Beef is also the best in the world. UHT milk is horrible. Filtered fresh milk is the answer, needs refrigeration but lasts for 5 times longer than non-filtered.

• by cschneid on 4/3/17, 5:00 AM

  My local store just started carrying small (1 pint) UHT milk. We don't use milk in our house, except as an ingredient in other things, so a pint at a time is perfect, and now it has a 6+ month shelf life, so there's less planning and feel-bads when it goes sour.

• by pmontra on 4/3/17, 6:12 AM

  Pasteurized and UHT have about the same shelf space in Italy with the former tasting much better than the latter to me. I buy UHT only for the first breakfast when I come back from a vacation. Full fat milk tastes better than reduced fat, which is watery in comparison.

  However micro filtered milk become common in the last years. It lasts one or two weeks and tastes as pasteurized. It's the one I buy.

  The advantage of UHT is that it doesn't need a refrigerator so it's what I buy on vacation, when I don't have a fridge or where I don't trust the fridges of the sellers.

• by phantarch on 4/3/17, 2:14 PM

  Anecdotally, I almost exclusively buy Fair Life milk nowadays which usually has a very comfortable shelf life of 2-3 months. No discernible taste differences.

  They claim that they've got a cold-filtration process which is what allows for their milk to last so long. Doesn't sound the same as the UHT discussed in the article, I'd be curious to know what they exactly do. (https://fairlife.com/our-process/)

• by ProfessorLayton on 4/2/17, 10:18 PM

  Heh, I keep a box of single serve UHT milk cartons in my fridge just for making coffee on the weekends, and the occasional recepie. It's a little pricey at about $1.10/8oz carton, but at my consumption rate I'd be throwing away most of the 1/2 gallon jug anyway, which typically costs more per oz than a full gallon.

  I don't find it as good as non-UHT milk, but it's definitely worth the convenience of always having milk when I need it.

• by powertower on 4/2/17, 9:18 PM

  Non-homogenized milk will also not spoil like regular milk does [though it still needs refrigeration, but it will last for 2-3 month pass its expiration date].

• by senectus1 on 4/3/17, 1:05 AM

  We drink the Lactose free stuff, that stores for months in the cupboard. Oddly it seems to taste nicer than fresh milk.

• by huherto on 4/3/17, 2:17 PM

  This is probably what we call tetrapak milk in Mexico. You buy them in the supermarket and they last for months. I was surprised not find it in the US. It is very convenient. I don't think it tastes different than regular refrigerated milk.

• by philmander on 4/3/17, 7:29 AM

  There's quite a big different between 72°c and 140°c. Would 105° produce a semi-long lasting milk that doesn't taste quite as different (bad) as UHT?

  Also, are there any other downsides to UHT besides taste? Are more nutrients lost?

• by NanoWar on 4/3/17, 12:25 PM

  So I go out and order a nice coffee from expensive beans, grinded & brewed with love -- only to see that they put UHT milk in it instead of fresh milk ... that spoils it for me!

• by sargun on 4/3/17, 8:59 AM

  Does anyone irradiate milk? I don't think the Mallard reaction would be present -- although, the milk proteinase would remain, but traditional pasteurization would be effective as an interim solution to deal with the unwanted enzymes.

  It seems like this is a low-hanging startup that might actually benefit from Trump's America.

• by skc on 4/3/17, 7:38 AM

  I'm embarrassed that I never looked into the difference between the two.

  I've always bought fresh milk on the assumption that it was healthier and purer than the long life stuff, especially because the long life milk tastes a tad sweeter and creamier to me (so it must be bad for me, right?)

• by bootload on 4/3/17, 7:23 AM

  Pasteurised, UHT but no mention of powdered or condensed milk.

• by d--b on 4/3/17, 6:42 AM

  Weird that they don't talk about micro-filtered milk. It removes bacteria through filtration, tastes like regular milk, has a long shelf life and stays good for a good week in your fridge...

• by dkarapetyan on 4/3/17, 4:57 AM

  And honey lasts forever.

• by projectorlochsa on 4/3/17, 8:16 AM

  Another milk that lasts months is soy milk. Nutritionally superior and cruelty free!

• by sauronlord on 4/3/17, 5:44 AM

  Drink milk?

  What are you... a baby cow?

  This piece was likely inspired by the milk lobby... sales must be sagging.