by jlas on 9/6/16, 1:53 PM with 297 comments
by donatj on 9/6/16, 2:47 PM
I still feel like they get a bad rap. Was it overpriced? Probably. Did I learn a ton and have small class sizes. Absolutely. The instructors had all previously worked in the industry, and knew their topics very well.
On top of all that, after graduation their persistent pestering of "how many places did you apply to this week?" (surely to help their numbers) had a lot to do with me actually getting a job. I didn't want to let the lady that called me weekly down. It took a lot of persistence and interviewing but I finally got my foot firmly in the door about 6 months after graduation.
I've been gainfully employed in the industry for ten years, I'm debt free, and I'm happy. I'm thankful for my time there.
by aaronchall on 9/6/16, 2:35 PM
The reality: most of these students will not realize a return on the investment of their time and acquisition of a ton of debt that they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. Many will fail to attend class, fail to take notes, fail to do homework, fail to learn, and will not complete - but because they have already sunk huge costs into the endeavor, will continue incurring more costs in spite of the writing on the wall.
The economics means that these schools are unsustainable. However, some people find success through these schools. How can we continue to serve these people?
Perhaps we could avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater by creating more community colleges, allowing more people to enroll in affordable community colleges, complete milestones at their own pace, while providing more direct subsidies of tuition for the truly needy. I agree that we would benefit from more German-style apprenticeship programs as well. For all of their worker protections, they still have incredibly low youth unemployment.
by joedissmeyer on 9/6/16, 2:23 PM
Thankfully I too have been able to take advantage of the Department of Education relief. But I have to go through the process of the “borrower defense to repayment”. It continues to be a tough process but at least it some form of relief for me.
I hope former ITT students are able to find a quick resoluton. This type of school shutdown is not easy on anyone.
On another note, I wonder if this is the start of the 'higher-ed debt bubble' that has been predicted for quite some time now...
by mikestew on 9/6/16, 3:51 PM
Here's how that sounds to me: "Well, ITT technically hasn't done anything illegal. But we don't like them. How much cash do they have? Double that amount and tell them we need this much for 'collateral' or we shut them down."
Can anyone fill in the blanks that Bloomberg didn't? What basis does the government have to make such demands (as it appears to me) out of the blue? Why make such demands knowing going into it that it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy? (That last question is kind of rhetorical.)
by aerhakr on 9/6/16, 4:04 PM
by kayla210 on 9/6/16, 2:11 PM
by tzs on 9/6/16, 5:42 PM
It was founded by several state governors about 20 years ago, and is accredited by The Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities.
It's pricing is interesting: $2890 per six-month term, regardless of how many classes you take or credits you earn during that term. If you want to take a heavy load to earn the degree faster and save money, you can.
Each degree program has a particular list of skills that you have to demonstrate competency in to earn the degree. They offer, of course, all the necessary classes to learn those skills, but you are not required to take those classes--you are just required to demonstrate the skills. If you have already acquired some of these skills elsewhere, you can take the test or do the project that demonstrates it and that will count toward the degree.
For most of the IT degrees you also earn several widely recognized third-party IT certifications, at no extra cost. For example the IT bachelor's program in network administration includes these certifications: MSCA Windows Server, CompTIA Linux+, CompTIA A+, CompTIA Network+, CompTIA Security+, and CompTIA Project+.
(The offer more than IT, BTW. The also have bachelor and master programs in teaching, business, and health).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Governors_University
by paulddraper on 9/7/16, 2:57 AM
"Free education" they say. "It will solve problems" they say. "Education will be better" they say.
No, it won't. Free education -- or subsidized loans -- puts a disconnect between education and its cost.
If the person paying is not the person deciding, a poor decision will be made. It's just like how HSAs prompt people to think about what they're spending their money on.
ITT would not exist but for government spending. Sure, some will beat the dead horse of more regulation. But the real answer is STOP SUBSIDIZING. Stop subsidizing education, stop subsidizing mortgages, stop subsidizing GM, stop blowing decisions sideways by removing the universal language of cost from the discussion.
by clarkmoody on 9/6/16, 3:00 PM
How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess? We've seen a massive increase in tuition costs, far beyond inflation in recent years. Such is the result of artificially boosting demand for college on the backs of the taxpayer.
As for forgiving ITT student loans, I say no. Students are responsible for their own loans and (bad) decisions. By that reasoning, shouldn't we just forgive all student debt for anyone who didn't get their dream job straight out of undergrad? What about those who don't finish school but still have loans? For everyone but the far left, these ideas are ludicrous. Let's not make the taxpayer suffer twice for the poor decisions of others.
by peterhadlaw on 9/6/16, 2:10 PM
by brightsize on 9/6/16, 4:16 PM
by tickthokk on 9/6/16, 2:10 PM
by jrs235 on 9/6/16, 2:40 PM
by at-fates-hands on 9/6/16, 2:12 PM
http://www.citypages.com/news/itt-tech-sells-an-american-dre...
by dbg31415 on 9/6/16, 4:03 PM
I get not everyone needs to go to an Ivy League school, but for vocational basics -- what people are going to these for-profit schools hoping to gain -- community college should be "good enough."
I'd look at Bellevue Community College as a great example of a strong vocational tech school. That should be a model others could strive for. When I was younger I learned a great deal in BCC classes -- knowledge that was immediately beneficial to my day job as a software developer.
In contrast, the classes at BCC were far more hands-on training than what I got at the school I eventually graduated from. Educationally, community college I feel was better... but certainly for connections and networking the "name-brand" schools pay off.
by ramblenode on 9/6/16, 9:01 PM
This seems very unfair to taxpayers, who are essentially forced creditors. If the college reneges on its contract with students, then the students should seek to reclaim their losses through a class action lawsuit against ITT. The government shouldn't be covering losses on what were, arguably, bad investments.
by spudlyo on 9/6/16, 6:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l31I9RvluEA
I asked that once during an interview, and was met with blank stares. Haven't asked it since, but I feel like it could have been hilarious.
by koolba on 9/6/16, 2:19 PM
by Unbeliever69 on 9/6/16, 4:28 PM
by JoeAltmaier on 9/6/16, 2:21 PM
{edit} Seems like US Universities are about 1:1 faculty vs staff. Up from 2:1 40 years ago.
by arikrak on 9/7/16, 12:37 AM
by dccoolgai on 9/6/16, 2:04 PM
Indeed.
by chris_wot on 9/6/16, 2:22 PM
That's quite a mitigation strategy the government has going on there.
by WheelsAtLarge on 9/9/16, 3:12 AM
Many students come out of the great schools owing thousands and having a very hard time getting a job.
This is not new. The fact is that universities weren't created for job training. Their job was to expand your knowledge. That's why you can get a degree in Greek mythology or Latin or whatever.
It was really a way for rich people to spend their time in something constructive. Somewhere the idea of a university and job training came together but universities aren't very good at job training so that's the big problem. We as a society don't have a great way to train the massed for society's jobs.
Community college focus on getting you to a four year college but they need to do a better job at job training.
For profit schools have tried but they focus on profits and lose sight of the students.
We blame the institutions but students also need to take responsibility. If you can't take the time learn don't expect to get a job where someone needs to have a productive employee to keep the business going.
Also the K-12 schools need to do something to fix the problem. How is it that a student goes through 13 years of school and not learn to be a productive employee? That the real shame.Yet we put the blame elsewhere.
Politicians love to argue the effects of same sex bathrooms but they aren't willing to take on why schools are failing society.
We need to fix that.
by JulianMorrison on 9/6/16, 2:18 PM
by KevinEldon on 9/6/16, 6:29 PM
by walrus01 on 9/7/16, 12:50 AM
by xenadu02 on 9/6/16, 3:24 PM
by Geekette on 9/6/16, 4:42 PM
by sytelus on 9/6/16, 5:31 PM
by peter303 on 9/7/16, 3:33 AM
by emeraldd on 9/6/16, 3:29 PM
by Eric_WVGG on 9/6/16, 2:32 PM
by coredog64 on 9/6/16, 3:21 PM
by zomg on 9/6/16, 5:29 PM
they shut down because the u.s. department of education banned them from enrolling new students who use federal financial aid.
what do you think would happen to "not for-profit" colleges if the u.s. department of education did the same to them? i'd argue it's the "not for-profit" schools who are driving tuition prices up because the government won't stop loaning money to anyone with a pulse.
dry up that loan money and watch prices fall from the sky.
by __pid_t on 9/6/16, 9:23 PM
by tomohawk on 9/6/16, 8:49 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-bill-clintons...
EDIT: Not sure what the downvotes are for. ITT gets shutdown, but Laureate does the same thing, but even more so and gets a pass. The only difference appears to be these kinds of payoffs to politicos.
by gigatexal on 9/6/16, 2:14 PM
by ryanlm on 9/6/16, 7:19 PM
by colindean on 9/6/16, 7:41 PM
by matchagaucho on 9/6/16, 5:00 PM
But it's quite another problem if the school loses their accreditation and is unable to deliver a quality education.
by whorleater on 9/6/16, 2:45 PM
by rufius on 9/6/16, 3:58 PM
by jhylau on 9/6/16, 2:27 PM
by loco5niner on 9/6/16, 2:19 PM