from Hacker News

See That Billboard? It May See You, Too

by etruong42 on 2/29/16, 5:13 PM with 64 comments

  • by dsmithatx on 2/29/16, 6:37 PM

    "has partnered with several companies, including AT&T, to track people’s travel patterns and behaviors through their mobile phones."

    Basically what I make of this is that cell phone companies (for sure AT&T) have already agreed to sell Clear Channel your location data. Do they already disseminate this information out to anyone who is willing to pay for it or is this new?

    Edit - I found they do and below are there are opt out links for different cell providers.

    http://www.igeeksblog.com/how-to-disable-data-tracking-on-at...

  • by typeiierror on 2/29/16, 6:57 PM

    I work peripherally in this industry, so I can provide more context to the data used here; based on the press release[i], Clear Channel is using three different types of data for this:

    1) AT&T cell tower data. All major US carriers collect aggregate movement data, and some have productized it (check out Grandata and Streetlight Data if you're interested). They're likely providing something like a persons count by daypart to Clear Channel at some geography, likely census block group. AT&T likely provides course demographics as well (either by purchasing them from a data broker like Experian or Epsilon) or by looking up the aggregate demo characteristics reported by the US Census for the block group of the subscribers household. As an aside, current gen (4G) cell tower data isn't very precise - maybe 100m accuracy or worse.

    2) Placed opt in GPS panel data. There are many market research companies that pay consumer run location tracking apps (mFour and Instantly are other examples). Placed is probably the biggest (~1mm panelists).

    3) PlaceIQ mobile ad server GPS data. PlaceIQ, xAd, Factual, Verve, Ninth Decimal...all of these companies read the lat / long coordinates provided by mobile SSPs in mobile RTB bid stream to create location segment profiles associated with your phone's Ad ID. The data isn't very accurate (mobile ad fraud is a problem...an app change the GPS coord from rural Kansas to downtown Manhattan to juice their CPM in an auction; also, most of the GPS used for buying mobile inventory is via "LastKnownLocation" apis which are notoriously inaccurate). These guys generally use their data to group your Ad ID into a segment (if they see you at a Wendy's, they'll sell your Ad ID to mobile RTB bidders as a "Frequent Wendy's eater"). Clear Channel is probably using this to see if exposure to a billboard caused you to make a purchase that they can attribute to your Ad ID (say via the advertisers CRM database), or to augment the demo data from AT&T with demo segments they can buy from mobile data exchanges.

    [i]: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160229005959/en/Clea...

  • by bsenftner on 2/29/16, 6:23 PM

    I worked on an outdoor advertising system with tracking cameras that watched pedestrians as they passed, changing the billboard when various demographics were identified in front of the display. This was back in the 2009-2010 time frame. I was just consulting, and am pretty sure this company was purchased by someone like Clear Channel soon after. I think journalists are late to this one...
  • by jbob2000 on 2/29/16, 6:20 PM

    Somewhat related, but is there such a thing as "peak advertising"? Like, the point at which there is so much advertising that there is no more space to advertise on? Or we become so inundated by it that it ceases to have any affect on us at all?
  • by elorant on 2/29/16, 5:55 PM

    So you block ads on your phone and next thing you know they're tracking you outdoors. Geez. We need some regulation pretty soon otherwise this whole situation will get out of hand. What if someone hacks into that billboard and routes the data elsewhere?
  • by betterturkey on 2/29/16, 6:23 PM

    The attribution data story is really weird here.

    So outdoor advertisers can potentially pixel customers who see an "impression" like they do for online ads and track conversion behavior if they ultimately walk into a store?

    The article doesn't speak much to this, but what opt-in permission would a user give to actually allow their location to constantly be relayed to advertisers to make this possible? Would Target need to hide this in their T&C of their app and then match it against the billboard's data on an advertiser-by-advertiser basis...?

  • by stegosaurus on 3/1/16, 12:52 AM

    What I worry about with all of this is the massive loss in productivity. As far as I'm concerned, there is a very clear externality here.

    If I walk through a city center and I'm bombarded with unavoidable billboards, it's just not good for my brain. I don't want it, it's pollution, poison. I would love a real-life ad blocker for public transport, for example.

    So what happens next? When do cities, local governments (London boroughs, say) start to care? Do they ever start to care that commutes, everyday lives of citizens are being destroyed (is there a clear enough causal link)?

    Or do we have to wait until people like me start moving out of the city because they don't want to see bollocks flashing lights everywhere, they don't want to walk through a Minority Report like scene of pervasive unavoidable attention grabbers?

  • by y04nn on 2/29/16, 6:18 PM

    The bad thing is that you're not aware that you're followed, and they don't even bother to ask your permission. At the scale of a shopping center it may be OK, but in your daily life it's frightening. ClearChannel has the power to know you better than your best friend.
  • by tpowell on 2/29/16, 6:37 PM

    Looks like you can opt-out here: http://att.com/cmpchoice

    "AT&T provides valuable insights to businesses without compromising consumer privacy. AT&T Data Patterns does not share individual data – only counts. For instance, a report might tell what percentage of passersby is males aged 20-30. Consumers are always able to opt-out of having their anonymous, aggregated information used at att.com/cmpchoice."

  • by chinathrow on 2/29/16, 7:37 PM

    I've heard from german address/data brokers (Schober) that they send out targeted mailings via email and then location pinpoint high value targets for product/ad category X - then they visit these locations in persona and take pictures of their houses and cars to add more data to the profiles.

    What a sick world this has become.

  • by DanBC on 2/29/16, 9:05 PM

    The UK Information Commissioner is keeping an eye on this kind of stuff.

    https://iconewsblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/21/how-shops-can-u...

  • by cfontes on 2/29/16, 6:18 PM

    They have tried this on Shopping malls and it was a disaster, people got really pissed when this was found out.

    I think it's inevitable but it's not nice to know it's happening.

  • by ap22213 on 3/1/16, 2:36 AM

    The thing is that location 'signatures' can be created from many types of sensors, as long as they're able to record an environmental factor that is discriminable on a position. It's not important that the signature is very accurate in itself, only that enough independent signatures can be combined together to make one accurate estimate.
  • by jhanschoo on 3/1/16, 7:20 AM

    That reminds me of this device [1] in Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen

  • by dansorensen712 on 3/1/16, 6:20 PM

    What an awesome and innovative project. I wish there were more techniques like this.
  • by steve_taylor on 2/29/16, 11:56 PM

    In Soviet Russia...
  • by joesmo on 2/29/16, 6:50 PM

    "But, he added, the company was using the same data that mobile advertisers have been using for years, and showing certain ads to a specific group of consumers was not a new idea."

    No, that's a lie. GPS data is not available by default and can be controlled by the user. It's certainly not something that has been available for years to advertisers. It sounds like despite any permissions you may refuse in your OS/apps that AT&T will sell your data regardless (unless you opt out). Also, I know it's the NYT, but there's no such thing as anonymizing data. This has been shown over and over again that pretty much any data can be de-anonymized rather easily.

  • by chejazi on 2/29/16, 8:00 PM

    Introducing AdBlock for Oculus. Keep distractions to a minimum when you travel and blocking all* advertisements.

    *Excludes Facebook Ads